Audience Irrelevance in the Olivet?

How much do you know about the historical context surrounding the period between Jesus’s resurrection in AD 30 and the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70? How about the accounts of Jewish historian Josephus and Roman historian Tacitus regarding the AD 66-70 Roman-Jewish war culminating in the complete annihilation of the Temple? Shockingly, most Christians are oblivious to this time period and it has drastically skewed their understanding of the Olivet Discourse. (Mt 24; Mk 13; Lk 21) It’s a travesty how little Christians know about the incredible fulfillment of Jesus’s prophecies.

Why it matters

Consider the following statements from Pastor’s John MacArthur and David Jeremiah concerning Bible prophecy. Ask yourself if what these men are predicting is rings true. In other words, be a Berean and determine if the Scripture bears witness to their prophetic expectations.

These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so. (Acts 17:11)

A couple of years ago at John MacArthur’s Grace Community Church, attended by nearly 10,000 devotees, Pastor MacArthur warned …

“They killed Jesus. They killed all the apostles. We’re all going to be persecuted… No, we don’t win down here. Are you ready for that? Just to clear the air. I love this clarity. We don’t win. We lose on this battlefield. But we win on the big one. The eternal one.”

And if MacArthur wasn’t clear enough, he more recently doubled down leaving no doubt where he stood.

“There will be a barrage of false Christs, false messiahs, false teachers, false prophets, wars, disasters, persecution, all through human history, and getting worse and worse and worse, and at the end, the explosion of these kinds of things will reach epic proportions that are described in revelation 6 through 19 in a seven year period called the time of tribulation…even the latter half of that is a time of great tribulation the last 3 1/2 years being the worst of all.”

Not a pretty picture, that’s for sure!

Dr. David Jeremiah, one of the most prolific apocalyptic authors of our day, has written 114 books and sold 4,000,000 copies, most of which deal with the “end times”. These are but a few:

Agents of the Apocalypse
After the Rapture
Agents of Babylon
Is This the End?
Where Do We Go From Here?
The Book of Signs
The World of the End
Escape the Coming Night
60 Days of Prophecies
Answers to Questions About Living in the Last Days
People Are Asking… Is This the End?

In Agents of the Apocalypse: A Riveting Look at the Key Players of the End Times:

“As the conditions of our world worsen, Jesus said we shouldn’t hang our heads in depression or shake our heads in confusion. We should lift up our heads in expectation, for our redemption draws near (Luke 21:28).

He went on:

“That before the Antichrist can be revealed, there will be a falling away, a forsaking, on the part of professing believers. This will not be a time when just a few people abandon their doctrinal beliefs; it will mark a period of major, widespread departure from the faith. In His Olivet discourse, Jesus predicted such a time: “Many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold” (Matthew 24:10-12).”

Is it possible that Dr. Jeremiah is wrong? Is he using the same hermeneutical principles (science of interpretation) as Lindsey, LaHaye, Falwell, Robertson and MacArthur? It should be noted that I have been hearing about these dire expectations since I became a Christian 54 years ago, and not a single event has come to fruition. Should this not us cause pause? Could there be something wrong with their Bible interpretation methods?

Audience Relevance or Irrelevance?

The dominant end times prophecy system (premillennial dispensationalism) of our day which these two pastors espouse, ignores bedrock principles of interpretation. For example, employing the concept of “audience relevance”, first considering the primacy of the original audience (in this case Jesus’s disciples), is necessary to understand the below passage. As a matter of fact, all literature is naturally interpreted in this manner, but when brilliant theologians and astute pastors attempt to understand Bible passages, too often they ignore this fundamental principle. Why, when we read the only God-breathed Book on the planet, do we justify dismissing the most profoundly enlightening interpretational components like audience relevancy? Could it be because we will do anything to hold on to our existing paradigms.

Lets take a look at the Matthew’s Olivet Discourse and read it through the eyes of the disciples, not as 21st century Christians. Jesus used the first person plural “you” in Matthew’s account 21 times. Was Jesus warning them or us? If Jesus was warning us, why do you think He didn’t constantly refer to they and them while giving indication that these events were thousands of years future?

Watch the Olivet account and then read Matthew 24 below the video. Feel the weight of what Jesus was telling them. And do you best to put yourself in their position.

Ask yourself who it was that Jesus warned not to be deceived? Who was it that would be delivered up to tribulation and be killed? Who was going to see the “abomination of desolation” (or “when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies” as Luke was speaking to a primarily Gentile audience)?  Who did Jesus warn about not being deceived by false Christs, or as John wrote, “antichrists?”

Jesus left the temple and was going away, when his disciples came to point out to him the buildings of the temple. But he answered them, “YOU see all these, do YOU not? Truly, I say to YOU, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.”

As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell US, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” And Jesus answered THEM, “See that no one leads YOU astray. For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray. And YOU will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that YOU are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are but the beginning of the birth pains.

“Then they will deliver YOU up to tribulation and put YOU to death, and YOU will be hated by all nations for my name’s sake. 10 And then many will fall away[a] and betray one another and hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. 12 And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world [Roman Empire] as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

15 “So when YOU see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, 18 and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. 19 And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! 20 Pray that YOUR flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 

21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. 23 Then if anyone says to YOU, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told YOU beforehand. 26 So, if they say to YOU, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth [land] will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

32 “From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts out its leaves, YOU know that summer is near. 33 So also, when YOU see all these things, YOU know that he is near, at the very gates. 34 Truly, I say to YOU, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.

36 “But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. 37 For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, 39 and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left. 42 Therefore, stay awake, for YOU do not know on what day YOUR Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 Therefore YOU also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour YOU do not expect.

45 “Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his master has set over his household, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. 47 Truly, I say to YOU, he will set him over all his possessions. 48 But if that wicked servant says to himself, ‘My master is delayed,’ 49 and begins to beat his fellow servants[d] and eats and drinks with drunkards, 50 the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know 51 and will cut him in pieces and put him with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 24:1-51)

Now that you’ve had time to watch and read Matthew 24, is there any doubt to whom Jesus was speaking? Is this warning directed to us, living in the 2026 or is it clear that Jesus was speaking directly to His disciples? When would all these things take place?

Assuredly, I say to YOU, THIS GENERATION will by no means pass away till all these things take place. (Matthew 24:34)

So, is MacArthur correct when he so emphatically stated, “There will be a barrage of false Christs, false messiahs, false teachers, false prophets, wars, disasters, persecution, all through human history, and getting worse and worse and worse, and at the end…”

How about Jeremiah? “In His Olivet discourse, Jesus predicted such a time: “Many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold”

Have you ever considered that “all these things” actually took place between Jesus’s AD 30 resurrection and the AD 70 destruction of Jerusalem?

In the preface to George Peter Holford’s 1805, “The Destruction of Jerusalem – An Absolute & Irresistible Proof of the Divine Origin of Christianity”, G.H. Landon wrote:

History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. Their intimate connexion
with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the
world; the striking verification which they afford of so many of the prophecies, both of the Old and New Testament, and the powerful arguments of the divine authority of the Scriptures which are thence derived; the solemn warnings and admonitions which they hold out to all nations, but especially such as are favoured with the light and blessings of REVELATION; together with the impressive and terrific grandeur of the events themselves–are circumstances which must always insure to the subject of the following pages more than ordinary degrees of interest and importance. (click on the cover to read this short book).

Following are some of the subheadings to give you a flavor of the contents.

  • THE NATURE OF THE EVIDENCES OF THE SCRIPTURE REVELATION
  • THE DESCRIPTION OF JERUSALEM AND THE TEMPLE
  • THE LORD’S ENTRY INTO JERUSALEM
  • HE PREDICTS OF THE CITY AND THE TEMPLE
  • ACCOUNT OF FALSE MESSIASHS WHOSE APPEARANCE HE FORETOLD
  • WARS AND RUMORS OF WARS
  • EARTHQUAKES
  • FAMINES
  • PESTILENCES
  • PRODIGIES WHICH PROCEEDED
  • PERSECUTIONS
  • PERSECUTIONS OF THE PRIMITIVE CHRISTIANS
  • SPEEDY PROPAGATION OF THE GOSPEL IN ALL THE WORLD
  • FOUNDATION OF THE ROMAN WAR
  • GESTIUS GALLUS
  • CRUELTY TO THE IDUMEANS
  • APPROACH OF THE ROMAN ARMY – TITUS ENCAMPS BEFORE JERUSALEM
  • THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION DESCRIBED
  • FAMINE APPEARS IN THE JEWISH ARMY – DEPLORABLE AFFECTS OF THE FAMINE
  • NUMBERS OF DEAD CAST OUT – DISTRESS AND CRUELTY
  • A SOLDIER SETS FIRE TO THE TEMPLE
  • AN ATTEMPT TO PRESERVE THE SANCTUARY
  • TERRIBLE SLAUGHTER OF THE JEWS DURING THE BURNING OF THE TEMPLE
  • TOTAL DESTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE
  • THE JEWS REFUSE TO SURRENDER
  • MASSACRE IN THE ROYAL PALACE
  • THE FINAL DESTRUCTION OF JERUSALEM
  • THE QUALIFICATIONS OF JOSEPHUS
  • CHARACTER OF TITUS
  • SUFFERINGS OF THE JEWS, SUBSEQUENT OF THE DESTRUCTION OF JERUSALEM

Everything in Matthew 24 took place within a generation of Jesus’s Olivet declaration! Everything. And for those who, without a shred of evidence, insist that it’s all going to happen again in our future… How can there be two abominations of desolation (Jerusalem surrounded by armies); two great tribulations “such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be”; Two Gospel preached to all the world and then the end? How many ends are there? The absurdity of taking this position proves just how desperate people are to maintain their paradigm. The NT is the final authority. There is no sanctioned Ground Hog’s Day eschatology. 

The views of MacArthur and Jeremiah make the Olivet audience irrelevant. And I find that troubling since they are trusted by tens of millions.

Have you ever wondered why we are riddled with unbelief? Why don’t we take Jesus at His word? Why we come up with so many excuses for Jesus not returning in the timeframe He stipulated? I can assure you that, though the disciples weren’t certain how all of this was going to play out, they clearly understand that things were going to get very dicey.

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Why Do We Keep Pushing Christ’s fulfillment Into the Future? – Sean Peterson

I’ve been doing a lot of thinking lately about the Church and Israel and where some of our modern theology came from, especially dispensationalism. I’ve always assumed that this was the way the Bible was always interpreted and I never studied it out on my own.

Dispensationalism, as we know it today, didn’t come from the early church. It really took root in the 1800s. John Nelson Darby (1800–1882), who was part of the Plymouth Brethren movement, is really where this system began. He divided history into different “dispensations” and separated Israel and the Church into two parallel plans of God. That way of reading Scripture was new.

Those ideas stayed fairly contained until C. I. Scofield popularized them through the Scofield Reference Bible in 1909. The biblical text didn’t change — but the notes did. Those notes put dispensational interpretations right next to the verses, and once that happened, a lot of people assumed that was simply what the Bible taught. Especially because by the early–mid 20th century, the Scofield Reference Bible had become the default study Bible in almost every American evangelical seminary and Bible institutes, especially places like Dallas Theological SeminaryMoody Bible Institute, and Biola, so its notes shaped how generations of Pastors were trained to read Scripture.

But when we take our time and read what Jesus and Paul say throughout the scriptures, that framework starts falling apart.

Jesus never taught two separate peoples of God

He taught that the only way to the Father was through Him and doesn’t matter what culture or nationality you are. You are either going to accept Him or deny Him. Paul never taught two parallel covenants.

And the apostles weren’t preaching delay, they were preaching fulfillment.

Jesus says very plainly, “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill” (Matthew 5:17). That’s not vague language. Fulfill doesn’t mean pause or push into the future and he plainly says he CAME to fulfill it ALL, meaning everything about his coming fulfilled the law and scripture is clear about how.

Paul says, “For all the promises of God find their Yes in Him” (2 Corinthians 1:20). Not some promises. Not spiritual promises only. All.

He also says, “He Himself is our peace, who has made both one” (Ephesians 2:14). Not partially one. Not spiritually one while still divided later. Just… one.

And then Paul goes even further: “If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, heirs according to promise” (Galatians 3:29). That alone should make us stop and rethink a lot of categories we’ve inherited.

What really stops me, though, was something Paul says in Acts 13. He’s preaching in a synagogue and he says, “We bring you the good news that what God promised to the fathers, this He has fulfilled to us their children by raising Jesus” (Acts 13:32–33).

That’s past tense.

All promises fulfilled to the fathers and then to us. And the fulfillment is tied directly to the resurrection.

Paul’s gospel literally depends on the idea that the promises are no longer lingering into the future.

When you line that up with how the New Testament talks about the promises to Israel, the pattern is consistent.

  • The seed promise to Abraham points to Christ (Galatians 3:16).
  • The blessing to the nations becomes the gospel going to the Gentiles (Galatians 3:8).
  • The Davidic throne is fulfilled in Christ’s kingship (Luke 1:32–33Acts 2:30–36).
  • The new covenant is established in His blood (Luke 22:20; Hebrews 8 ).
  • The land promise expands, to all the world. Paul says Abraham would inherit the world (Romans 4:13Matthew 5:5).
  • The temple becomes Christ and His people (John 2:19–21Ephesians 2:21).
  • And the Law is written on hearts through the Spirit (Jeremiah 31; Romans 8 ).

What a downgrade for Israel to say, “Oh God promised to give you one small piece of land back,” when Jesus came and said everyone who believes in Him is brought into one family — Jew and Gentile together. Paul says Abraham wasn’t promised a strip of land at all, but the whole world (Romans 4:13).

And when Jesus said, “Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth”(Matthew 5:5), He wasn’t talking about real estate. He was talking about what belongs to those who choose Him. Why would we shrink Gods promise back to an old Covenant piece of land, excluding Jews from the whole world inheritance, and dividing people when he came to expand the gospel to all?

Then there’s the “one jot or tittle” passage. Jesus says, “Not one jot or tittle will pass from the Law until heaven and earth pass away”(Matthew 5:18).

In Scripture, “heaven and earth” is a way of describing an ordered world of law, worship, temple, and priesthood (see Isaiah 51:15–16; Deuteronomy 32; Jeremiah 4:23–28). In that sense, Jesus isn’t talking about the planet disappearing, but about the Old Covenant order remaining fully intact until it did what it was meant to do.

So applying the definition of, “heaven and earth” as it is interpreted in Isaiah, Deuteronomy, and Jeremiah, means the Old Covenant world.

Even if we continue believing “heaven and earth” means “literal creation”, the logic creates a big problem. Because if literal “heaven and earth” haven’t passed away yet, and not one dot of the Law can pass until they do… why aren’t Christians still keeping all of it? Sacrifices. Feast days. Purity laws. Dietary restrictions.

Paul is pretty clear. He says, “Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness” (Romans 10:4). And, “You are not under the Law, but under grace” (Romans 6:14). Not because the Law failed, but because it worked. And in case anyone feels like going the distance…

Below is an even more exhaustive list:

Acts 10:34–35 — “God shows no partiality, but in every nation anyone who fears Him and does what is right is acceptable to Him.”

Acts 15:8–9 — “God… made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith.”

Romans 2:11 — “For God shows no partiality.”

Romans 10:12 —“For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all.”

Galatians 2:6 — “God shows no partiality.”

Ephesians 2:14–16 — “He Himself is our peace… that He might create in Himself one new man.”

Ephesians 3:6 — “The Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus.”

Colossians 3:11 — “Here there is not Greek and Jew… but Christ is all, and in all.”

1 Corinthians 12:13 —“For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks.”

Galatians 3:28 — “There is neither Jew nor Greek… for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”

Romans 1:16 — The gospel… is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.”

Romans 3:29–30 — “Is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also.”

Romans 9:24 —“Even us whom He has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles.”

Romans 15:7–12 —“The Gentiles will glorify God for His mercy.”

Isaiah 49:6 — “I will make You a light for the nations, that My salvation may reach the ends of the earth.”

Isaiah 56:6–8 — “My house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples.”

Amos 9:11–12 (Acts 15:16–17) —“That the rest of mankind may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who are called by My name.”

And regarding Abraham…

Genesis 12:3 — “In you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”

Genesis 15:6 — “And he believed the Lord, and He counted it to him as righteousness.”

Genesis 22:18 —“In your offspring shall all the nations of the earth be blessed.”

Romans 4:11–13 — “The promise to Abraham… was that he would be heir of the world.”

Galatians 3:7–9 —“Those who are of faith are the sons of Abraham.”

Galatians 3:16 — “The promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring… who is Christ.”

Galatians 3:26–29 —“If you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.”

Acts 3:25–26 — “God… sent Him to bless you, by turning every one of you from your wickedness.”

Acts 13:32–33 — “What God promised to the fathers, this He has fulfilled to us.”

Luke 1:72–75 —“To remember His holy covenant, the oath He swore to Abraham.”

2 Corinthians 1:20 — “All the promises of God find their Yes in Him.”

Hebrews 2:11 — “He who sanctifies and those who are sanctified all have one source.”

Hebrews 11:1016 — “He was looking forward to the city that has foundations… a better country, that is, a heavenly one.”

The major concern for me personally is this…

Jesus says, “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life” (John 3:16). But believing in Jesus isn’t just believing He exists or that He saves. It also means taking Him at His word.

Early in His ministry, after reading from Isaiah, Jesus says, “Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing” (Luke 4:21). When Jesus stood up in the synagogue in Luke 4, He read from Isaiah 61 about the anointed one bringing good news, freedom, and restoration. Then He stopped mid-passage, sat down, and said, “Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”He was claiming that promise for Himself, and the people knew exactly what He was saying. That’s why they were fine with Him for about 30 seconds… and then tried to throw Him off a cliff once it sunk in.

After His resurrection, He explains that “everything written about Me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms must be fulfilled” (Luke 24:44). And Paul later says plainly that this had already happened: “What God promised… He has fulfilled by raising Jesus” (Acts 13:33).

Not postponed.

Not open-ended.

Fulfilled in Christ.

So I guess the question I keep coming back to is this:

  • If Jesus said Scripture was fulfilled in their hearing…
  • If Paul preached fulfilled promises as the basis of the gospel…
  • And if the apostles consistently spoke in terms of fulfillment rather than delay…

Why do we keep we pushing His fulfillment into the future? Are we taking back things He said were already done?

It’s just a couple questions worth sitting with.

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Jesus Calling by Sarah Young – A Critique

During a sermon, a pastor made a pejorative comment concerning Jesus Calling, a best-selling devotional he later admitted he never read. My wife, who is a huge fan of both Sarah Young, the author, and her plethora of devotionals, took issue with what she felt was an uninformed, mean-spirited attack. Note to self: Be intimately familiar with that which you assail, especially in a large group setting.

I’d watched a couple of very critical YouTube videos of Jesus Calling and had a cursory understanding of their reasoning, but I was far too ignorant to engage in a serious discussion with one of Sarah’s biggest fans. My hope was to end up agreeing with my wife, especially since she’d spoken of it in such glowing terms. So, given my ignorance on the matter, I decided to do some serious research.

It should be noted that a startling 50 million copies have been sold!

I began by purchasing both the Audible and Kindle versions of Jesus Calling and I read the first month of daily entries to gain the necessarily context. I wanted to understand Sarah’s style and experience Jesus Calling for myself.

I spent quite a few days working through it, reading numerous online resources and watching critiques both positive and negative. Some were brutal. Others were glowing. I scoured through literally hundreds of comments under the videos which ranged from, “It changed my life” to “It wrecked my understanding of Scripture.” I congealed those thoughts into my analysis, attempting to be as objective as possible.

The majority of my initial impressions were derived from Sarah’s daily entries. Since writing her devotional in 2004, Jesus Calling has been at the center of controversy. It elicits very strong emotions, either very positive or very negative. Why the passionate divide? Since it’s merely a devotional centered around the Bible, that may seem innocuous. Then why the harsh reactions? I will attempt to explain the main issue in a variety of ways, refraining from being overly cerebral so as not to dismiss the millions who testify to the vast benefits from Sarah’s writings.

Each daily reading begins with what Sarah describes as a message directly from Jesus followed by various Scripture passages. In the introduction she wrote:

“The Bible is the only infallible, inerrant Word of God, and I endeavor to keep my writings consistent with that unchanging standard. I have written from the perspective of Jesus speaking, to help readers feel more personally connected with Him. So the first person singular (“I,” “Me,” “My,” “Mine”) always refers to Christ; “you” refers to you, the reader.”

Following are my thoughts. For risk of being misunderstood, excuse my redundance.

The Positives:

  1. Based upon book sales of 15m and glowing testimonials, Sarah Young is driving vast numbers of people into God’s Word. This is a big deal that must not be discounted. Many who have never read the Bible have begun to read it regularly.
  2. The Scripture passages included each day are very helpful in acclimating readers to the Bible, encouraging them to dig deeper.
  3. She helps readers become more connected to the heart of Jesus.
  4. She inspires readers to take positive steps toward following Jesus.
  5. Overall, saying that Jesus Calling’s impact has been significant, is an understatement.

It is undeniable how Sarah’s gifted writing has benefited so many.

As I move toward criticisms, I want to make it abundantly clear that I am not questioning the legion of testimonies praising her work. Any time people are confronted with God’s Word they are changed.

For clarity, Sarah has repeatedly stated that she was not adding to Scripture, and that:

  • Her words are not inerrant
  • Her journal is a devotional and is not prophetic
  • Scripture and Scripture alone, is final authority

In her 2004 introduction she wrote: “I knew that these writings were not inspired as Scripture is.”

Sarah’s husband, Steve Young, recently speaking to the PCA general assembly which was considering an inquiry into Jesus Calling‘s potential encroachment on Sola Scriptura, defended his wife:

“Her writings did not add to Scripture but explain it. She would stand with Martin Luther and declare that her conscience was captive to the Word of God.”

He went on:

“Sarah is a sister in Christ and wife who delighted in the law of the Lord, and on his law she meditated day and night. She was led to share her meditations with the world.”

Sarah made clear that her devotionals were meant to be read “with your Bible open.”

Before I balance the positives with some concerns, let me say that though my apprehensions may be lengthier, this is not only a function of avoiding being misunderstood, but is the result of echoing the main issue from different angles. It should be noted that many theologians and Bible scholars are not simply being critical for the sake of being critical. Some are, but most have shared legitimate misgivings which have broad-reaching implications.

My Concerns:

#1 Straight from the Heart of Jesus?
Sarah begins each day with words that she said came straight from Jesus. My understanding is that in her prayer time she wrote down exactly what she believed Jesus was telling her to write. And she wanted to share those thoughts and exhortations with the world.

The tension lies between what is canonical and what isn’t. If Jesus inspired her to write down His exact words, perhaps you can sense the potential conflict. The book was written in the first-person voice of Jesus, with no theological disclaimers on the daily writings. To reiterate, Sarah has been very straightforward about the fact that these are not her words. On the one hand she states that her words are not inerrant, prophetic or are scripturally authoritative, but on the other she says that these were Jesus’s exact words… which is an apparent problem.

Though she makes clear that her writings are not inspired and are in no way on par with God’s word, it is nonetheless a rather bold assertion to claim that Jesus spoke to her word for word which were not merely for her personal edification but for the benefit of millions. So, they essentially become Jesus’s words to both Sarah and all who read Jesus Calling. This kind of transcendence definitely ups the ante.

The issue at stake is that the words she attributes to Jesus are either inspired by God or they’re not. She says they’re not, but that doesn’t settle the issue. Based upon her foreword, she believes that God has spoken directly through her. To give you a flavor, I have excerpted a small section of January 1. Notice the personal pronouns are capitalized which refer to Jesus.

“COME TO ME with a teachable spirit, eager to be changed. A close walk with Me is a life of continual newness. Do not cling to old ways as you step into a new year. Instead, seek My Face with an open mind, knowing that your journey with Me involves being transformed by the renewing of your mind. As you focus your thoughts on Me, be aware that I am fully attentive to you.”  Young, Sarah. Jesus Calling, with Scripture References: Enjoying Peace in His Presence (A 365-Day Devotional) (Jesus Calling®) (p. 2). Thomas Nelson. Kindle Edition.

Notice the perspective. “Come to ME” and “Seek MY face with an open mind.” This immediately begs the question as to what biblical inspiration means. If Jesus inspired the exact words in Sarah’s daily entries, how can they be less than quotes of Jesus recorded in the Gospels? In Matthew’s Gospel Jesus said, “Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.” Jesus is speaking in the first person. Matthew was inspired to write those exact words.

*And we should take note at this point to realize how the Gospels and Epistles were written. God inspired men through the Holy Spirit to write through their personalities and experiences. The words were not dictated to them as Sarah claims was done for her. So why wouldn’t the words Jesus spoke directly to her not be even more inspired than the biblical books?

The question is, can Jesus ever speak non authoritatively? How is the above any different than when Sarah wrote, “A close walk with Me is a life of continual newness.” Some Bibles put Jesus’s words in red because they were spoken by the King of Kings. Therefore, could the opening words of her daily devotional be colored red? If not, why not?

 This might sound like hair-splitting but it’s not. She is not saying that they are merely personal directives gleaned from her prayer time. I believe God speaks directly to His people, but if we take what we believe we hear from God in our daily prayer time and say, “Thus saith the Lord,” it must not only be 100% accurate, but it must come from the Lord. There is no fudge factor. Mishandling God’s Word is serious.

How is what she’s writing not Scripture? She and her husband saying that it’s different, are mere words.

If you know anything about Sarah, it’s obvious that her intent was not to elevate the words in her book to Scriptural authority. According to a friend who knew Sarah quite well, he said that she was extremely humble and she lived an exemplary life of service to Jesus.

But the question remains: In what category do we place the words of Jesus if they were not written by an inspired author with the Holy Spirit’s divine authority e.g. the Apostles Paul or Peter. It’s one thing to include a number of Scripture passages and congeal your understanding of them into a daily reading. That would be similar to a commentary, and is the method employed in every other modern-day devotional. I’m not aware of any other modern author who writes in first person Jesus.

At this point it should be noted that Sarah Young is not the only one to have written in this manner. Below are a few others.

Classical mystics / visionaries who reported direct speech from Christ in visions, dreams, or locutions. These writings often contain first-person divine speech like Young’s format.

  • Julian of Norwich (Revelations of Divine Love) – (1500s)
  • Hildegard of Bingen (visions recorded as divine speech) – (1151)
  • Catherine of Siena – (1379)
  • Teresa of Ávila (Teresa of Jesus) (1577)
  • Anne Catherine Emmerich – (1819-1824)

Modern “Prophetic” or “Charismatic” Writers claim direct dictation or prophecy from Jesus and/or the Holy Spirit:

  • Mark Virkler (“two-way journaling”) – (2021)
  • Bill Johnson / Bethel-associated prophetic writings – (Current)
  • Louise Hay / God Calling (not evangelical, but directly influenced Jesus Calling) – (1932)

Non-Evangelical Modern Visionaries

  • Maria Valtorta (The Poem of the Man-God) – claimed dictation from Jesus – (1947)
  • Gabrielle Bossis (He and I) – daily first-person speech from Jesus – (1985)
  • Anne a Lay Apostle (Direction for Our Times) – (2004)

So, in my view, this leaves us with a serious dilemma. If the words are uninspired as Sarah says (most of those listed above say that they are reporting what God said to them), then I find it strange for her to write as if they came directly from the mind of Christ. Again, how can anything Jesus said be uninspired?

This concerns me a great deal. To be transparent, I have no dog in this fight. The reality is that I would prefer to agree with the throngs who say they have benefited from Jesus Calling. And I want to avoid stepping on the toes of those who think the world of Sarah’s writings. I have no interest in casting aspersions on someone far godlier than me. But what I am passionate about is defending God’s word from the constant attacks of Muslims, atheists, and many other religions. And Jesus Calling is, in my view, blurring the lines that must be drawn somewhere.

Many conservative apologetic’s scholars who regularly debates Muslims, Mormons and other groups claiming to have heard directly from God (Quran, Doctrine and Covenants and the book of Mormon), are very concerned with Jesus Calling. No critic that I’ve read is deliberately attempting to squelch the Spirit of God or anything of the kind. Rather, they are fighting to preserve the integrity of the Bible. Once we go down this slippery slope, where does it end? That’s why I think this discussion is worth having.

Let’s say you have a vision that you believe came from Jesus, and you put it to paper professing that it is from the Lord. How should others treat it? What if many similar Jesus Calling books are written claiming to speak for Jesus? And the broader question is, do all believers indwelt by the Holy Spirit have this same capability as Sarah? If Jesus gives you His unvarnished Words, are they meant for everyone?

You may think it’s preposterous scenario, but what if thousands of similar devotionals are written, fueled by Sarah’s passion to hear directly from Jesus… each with messages directed to all Christians? What if we were to coalesce only Jesus’s words from hundreds of these devotionals into one hardbound book and call it “The Modern Sayings of Jesus?” Is it possible? Why not?

I would be far more comfortable if Sarah spoke as though her words were written through her eyes with the qualification that she felt that the Holy Spirit guided her commentary. Instead of speaking in the first person, what if Sarah had begun, “COME TO JESUS with a teachable spirit, eager to be changed”? If that had been the case, we wouldn’t be engaged in this discussion because this would be similar to every other devotional.

I see no way around the implication that to write as though the words came directly from Jesus makes them God inspired, no matter how Sarah protests to the contrary. I do not believe she can have it both ways i.e. on the one hand saying that the words are directly from Jesus, but on the other admitting that they are not biblically authoritative. Again, how can anything Jesus said not have supreme authority? How is this not adding to Scripture?

For example, the Epistle of Barnabas did not make it into the Canon even though Barnabas was a pivotal member of early church. Barnabas had been a direct companion of the Apostle Paul, but, because his writing was not deemed inspired, it did not become the 28th NT book. Yes, it’s worth reading, but it has no divine authority. I realize Sarah is not claiming that her words are inspired, but why would Jesus’s exact words which she said flowed from the mind of Christ directly to her, not be more inspired than Barnabas’s Epistle?

#2 Are Jesus’s words not authoritative? 
Sarah claims to have heard directly from Jesus as if Jesus was channeling through her. I know some may bristle at the word “channeling” since it carries a new age connotation, but that’s in fact what she’s saying. Sarah said that she was a conduit for the Lord to speak through her.

When so many have claimed to benefit from Jesus Calling, if anyone puts her words (ostensibly Jesus’s words) to the test, then Sarah’s devout followers have often branded dissenters as mean-spirited. But the reality is that if those words are uninspired, even if she says they came directly from Jesus, they must be scrutinized like any other writing. However, do you find not find it awkwardly strange criticizing the words of Jesus? Seriously, how can anyone criticize or even question anything Jesus said? This unwittingly elevates the words she attributes to Jesus to another category.

I’ve seen some extremely critical comments online from the usual heretic hunters, and I don’t think it’s fair to impugn Sarah’s motives. I believe she was convinced that Jesus actually spoke His words directly through her. She said she was a mere instrument and I believe her. However, as she has clearly stated, those words do not rise to the level of Scripture… and, therefore, we have an insurmountable problem.

How can we be critical of what she said Jesus spoke directly? To reiterate, if the words came from Jesus, how can they be scrutinized? If anyone says to one of Sarah’s devout readers, “Jesus couldn’t have said that”, can you imagine the outcry? How dare they quibble with the Messiah!

The most significant issue is that if those words are not breathed out by Jesus as she agrees they aren’t, then there is a guarantee that Jesus could not have spoken the words that are attributed to Him. Saying “thus saith the Lord” puts humanly spoken words into a very different category. If these were, in fact, Jesus’ words, completely reliable and true, then Jesus Calling would be Scripture. One can protest that conclusion but on what grounds? I don’t think this point can be overemphasized. So, though Sarah’s intent appears as pure and noble, she is unwittingly sending seriously mixed messages to her millions of readers. How are they to understand the difference between the 66 and writings like Sarah’s? This, in my view, is a very treacherous path.

#3 Is the Bible enough? 
Sarah said that she yearned for more than the Bible. “I knew that God communicated with me through the Bible, but I yearned for more. Increasingly, I wanted to hear what God had to say to me personally on a given day.” At this point we’ve changed the discussion from inspiration to sufficiency. Is Scripture sufficient? The reformers argued that the Bible was not only God breathed but that it was also sufficient for all things.

I think I understand her deep desire for intimacy with Jesus, and though I believe her quest was certainly heartfelt, why doesn’t she read, study and meditate on Scripture and allow the Word of God to speak to her (and us)? Why does she need other words that she says mirror what Scripture already teaches? Why not instead ask the Holy Spirit to help her to more fully understand what a Bible passage meant and how it should be applied on any given day?

Getting a personal word from Jesus is far different than receiving words from Jesus meant for the masses. For example. God may be leading you, but if you tell me how I should live based upon some directive you think you heard from God, that changes things. What should be my immediate reaction? To compare whatever you heard with Scripture, right? Therefore, what’s the reason for the redundancy. Just go to the Bible first and bypass the middle-man.

We all yearn to hear from God and I’m not arguing that God doesn’t still lead and guide his people. David heard regularly from the Lord regarding strategies of warfare etc. But is it a prudent precedent to believe that we not only hear directly from the mind of God, but that what we hear becomes a directive for all? It’s one thing to believe we have a leading from the Spirit, but quite another if we believe it applies to everyone else. That seems rather presumptuous.

What if I study diligently, pray fervently and then think I hear Jesus say, “Write down these words. I want you to write an eschatological commentary which will be directly from Me (Jesus). Put the words I’m about to tell you in the first person.” So, what would be the reaction if I wrote the following:

The things I’m writing to you have come directly from the mind of Jesus.

“Contrary to what too many of MY beloved children believe, I (Jesus) returned exactly as I said I would as I empowered the Roman army to destroy the wicked and perverse generation that had Me murdered. They were an abomination in MY eyes. And just as in the days of Noah, I annihilated the city of wickedness, Jerusalem, and I used the Roman army to raze the Temple to ground so that not one stone was left upon another. I detest those who continued to sacrifice after my once-for-all shedding of blood on that despicable cross. When I said that some standing here would not taste death until they saw ME coming in the clouds of glory, I meant it. When I said, You will not have finished going through the cities of Israel until I come, I meant it. For I am the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of this world. I am the Alpha and the Omega.

What I speak I will always do. Through my beloved Apostle Paul, I inspired him to write, “In a very little while HE who is coming will come and will not delay.” Through the man who denied ME three times, I filled him with these words, “The end of all things is near.” So why do the people question ME? Why do they make up excuses for ME as though I cannot do exactly what and when I promised? Why do they have so little faith not to believe that when I said, “This generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place”, I meant it? Every eye saw Me, that is, those who had Me pierced. I avenged the martyred saints who cried out to ME with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, will YOU refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who live on the earth? Do you think I did not hear their incessant cries? Not long, my children for I told them “I am coming soon,: for I, the Lord your God, am faithful.”

How would the above be received if I wrote an entire book this way, as if Jesus wrote it?  I believe everything I wrote can be defended by Scripture and it could have come from Jesus. But others might sharply disagree. If I claimed that Jesus spoke those exact words to me, and I felt compelled to share them as Jesus’s words to the Church, I would be excoriated. I can hear them now. How dare you put words in Jesus’s mouth! And I would agree with the critics. So, why is Jesus Calling any different?

I think at the very least it’s presumptuous to believe that God would speak directly through Sarah as though she was a prophet, though as mentioned earlier, she doesn’t claim to be prophet. But I’d still like to understand the difference. Does a prophet not speak on God’s behalf?

If a pastor said God told him something specific that must happen which will impact his entire congregation, would that not cause concern within the membership and therefore prompt further investigation and inquiry? Should his congregation simply yield assuming this is God’s will? I hope someone would judge the pastor’s words to determine if they are, in fact, from the Lord? If there is no corroboration within the church, has the pastor elevated himself above his congregants. Has he moved from pastor to mediator? Would the congregation be required to blindly follow him assuming that he is speaking directly for God?

Wouldn’t the leadership have the responsibility to first weigh the pastor’s vision against the backdrop of Scripture? Does it set a healthy precedent to think that we need more than what God has provided in His Word. 2 Tim 3:16 comes to mind. Everybody knows it. “All Scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.” The above example may not be a fair one-to-one comparison with what has been done in Jesus Calling, but when we say that we need more than what God has provided in His word, are we not wading into dangerous waters?

#4 God Calling was Sarah’s inspiration
Sarah modeled her book after God Calling, a “new age” type book whose two authors also claim to have heard directly from God. They mention channeling and auto-writing. It should be noted that Sarah’s publisher removed the reference to God Calling in later editions possibly because it drew backlash. After critics in the evangelical world began pointing out the similarities and the association with the channeling and automatic writing in God Calling, those explicit references to God Calling were removed in newer printings of Jesus Calling. In fairness, Thomas Nelson, the publisher, said that the reference to God Calling was removed for clarity. That may be true, but if that was Sarah’s inspiration why was it excised? Wouldn’t that be helpful information?

Sarah wrote regarding the “God Calling” authors, “These women practiced waiting quietly in God’s Presence, pencils and paper in hand, recording the messages they received from [God]. This little paperback became a treasure to me. It dove-tailed remarkably well with my longing to live in Jesus’ Presence.”

Longing to live in the presence of Jesus is a wonderful aspiration. But why isn’t Scripture sufficient? Why not meditate on the very Word of God as per the Psalmist?
Resources: https://beggarsbread.org/2020/10/25/concerns-about-jesus-calling/ and https://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/newsletters/2016/newsletter20160125.htm

#5 Canonical lines blurred
Sarah doesn’t draw a clear distinction between her words ascribed to Jesus and Jesus’s actual words as recorded in Scripture. As I’ve mentioned to the point of redundancy, I don’t understand why Sarah never attempts to explain why her words are not inspired Scripture. Saying so doesn’t make it so. If she didn’t use first person pronouns as if they came directly from Jesus, and instead she said something like, “These are thoughts which I believe God brought to my mind,” then what she wrote could be evaluated against the backdrop of the Bible. But she doesn’t give the reader any leeway since her quotes are directly attributed to Jesus.

So, when people read these words in first person Jesus, the Canonical lines are blurred. I’ve seen a number of reader responses, whether either consciously or subconsciously, who appear to believe that these are Jesus’s words and therefore directives for them. I’m not arguing that this is Sarah’s fault since she never makes that claim, but it is a problem since she never makes clear why Jesus’s actual words as given to her are not authoritative. Perhaps even if she made the disclaimer that, although she believes Jesus was telling her what to write, she could have said, “I believe this came from Jesus but I can’t be absolutely certain that they are for you, my reader.”

#6 Scripture compared to Jesus Calling
Following is what I believe is the key theological distinction:

Scripture = universal, infallible, binding revelation (canonical authority)
Jesus Calling = Private revelation = personal, fallible, non-binding impressions

First-person divine speech implies revelation. If Jesus says something, it must be binding.

Therefore, it functionally creates new Scripture. How can anything Jesus said not be binding?

#7 The Dilemma
In practice, I believe this is the dilemma:

A. Sarah denies that her words from Jesus are scriptural inspiration.
B. Sarah says that her revelations are classified as private and fallible.
C. Therefore, they are subject to biblical testing.
D. But in effect, the first-person divine voice that she writes in, blurs the category, which is why many theologians and apologists are uncomfortable at least and call it heretical at worst.
E. In the mind of the reader, how can words from Jesus be any less authoritative than the Bible? If the words are from God, how are they not inspired?
F. And if Sarah’s daily writings are mere summarizations of other Bible passages (which summaries are open to scrutiny) then why attribute those words directly to Jesus even if she believes that’s what she heard Jesus tell her? Wouldn’t that be the safer path?

#8 Sola Scriptura
Sola Scriptura — means that the Bible is the only infallible revelation of God. This prohibits any new revelation outside of Scripture — which means that modern claims to hear direct words from Jesus which are presented as divine (rather than clearly personal meditation or paraphrase) is of grave theological concern.

#9 Should Jesus’s words ever be questioned?
The fact that so many have benefited from Jesus Calling is often the justification for squelching scrutiny. Since millions proclaim its praises, this puts critics in a precarious position. This unwittingly makes unqualified readers who have no background in Canonicity, the ultimate judge whether it rises to a level of inspiration. Unfortunately, even questioning whether Sarah’s words are actually from the very mind of Jesus, immediately brands one a mean-spirited ogre. And if anyone attempts to determine if the daily readings accurately reflect Scripture, they are assumed to be questioning Jesus.

#10 Unwittingly Infringing on Scripture
Sarah is unwittingly infringing on the sufficiency of Scripture. Clearly that is not her intent, but she’s nonetheless creating expectations in the minds of many that Scripture is not enough. The truth is that the Bible is not only inspired but it is sufficient which means that the Bible contains everything necessary for salvation, for knowing God, and for living a godly life—no additional binding revelation is required.

#11 Ex-Mormons have serious concerns
I hope I have made it clear that I am in no way questioning Sarah’s deep conviction, her motivation, or her love for Jesus. As one who has spent a great deal of time studying how we got our Bible which I believe is inspired, infallible, authoritative and inerrant, this issue matters a great deal. And this is the reason Ex-Mormons have serious concerns with Jesus Calling.

#12 Is Jesus Calling hermeneutically sound?
Since I already quoted this, let’s take another look at a snippet of Sarah’s January 1st entry which begins:

I [Jesus] also know the plans I [Jesus] have for you: plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.

Admittedly, I feel odd examining Jesus’s words… This is a quote from Jeremiah 29:11 as if Jesus said it. Considering the context in which it was written, is this statement true? Is this a promise for every person who reads this at all times and in all circumstances? Could Jesus have said this?

Is this truly a promise that God has plans to prosper us. Is Jesus promising wellbeing for all who trust Him in this new year? If Jesus said it, then it must apply to the first century Christ followers as well. Let’s take a look at whether this was true for the disciples/apostles.

Considering the severe persecution of the Apostles, would health, wealth, and prosperity be hallmarks of their personal experiences? As the author of Hebrews wrote, “For you had compassion on those in prison, and you joyfully accepted the plundering of your property, since you knew that you yourselves had a better possession and an abiding one.” (Hebrews 10:34) This verse seems to be in complete contradiction to what Jesus is said to have promised above?

Brian Chilton, who writes for Frank Turek’s “Cross Examined” ministry wrote:

“It is critically important to note that Jeremiah 29:11 is part of Jeremiah’s letter to the Israelites who would become Babylonian exiles. This is key to understanding the context of the verse. If the interpreter misses this point, he or she will not comprehend the nature of the verse. Quite frankly, I do not know that anyone would want this to be their graduation theme because God is telling the nation that they are about to experience difficult days ahead.”

Chilton went on, “Jeremiah 29:11 can be likened to Romans 8:28 which states, “We know that all things work together for the good of those who love God, who are called according to his purpose” (Rom. 8:28, CSB). In like manner, God tells those who would be exiled, “I will restore your fortunes and gather you from all the nations and places where I banished you … I will restore you to the place from which I deported you” (Jeremiah 29:14, CSB). While the people would face severe difficulty in their days ahead, they could live with the assurance that God would restore the fortunes of their people and their land.”

But many did not live long enough to see their fortunes restored. Did they experience the promised blessings as they entered into 70 years of Babylonian captivity?

So, did Jesus really cherry-pick a verse meant for a beleaguered people who were about to be devastated, and say that this was His plan for all those who would read Jesus Calling?

Further, consider the testimony of the Apostle Paul as he recounted his rather tumultuous journey since following Jesus. Did God have plans to prosper him and not allow harm to come to him?

“Five times I received at the hands of the Jews the forty lashes less one. 25 Three times I was beaten with rods. Once I was stoned. Three times I was shipwrecked; a night and a day I was adrift at sea; 26 on frequent journeys, in danger from rivers, danger from robbers, danger from my own people, danger from Gentiles, danger in the city, danger in the wilderness, danger at sea, danger from false brothers; 27 in toil and hardship, through many a sleepless night, in hunger and thirst, often without food, in cold and exposure. 28 And, apart from other things, there is the daily pressure on me of my anxiety for all the churches. (2 Corinthians 11:23-27)

Not exactly a life of prosperity! And He was not alone.

  1. Stephen’s martyrdom (Acts 7) — likely early AD 30s.
  2. Paul’s own persecution of Christians before his conversion (Acts 8–9).
  3. James the son of Zebedee executed by Herod Agrippa I (Acts 12:2, c. AD 44).
  4. James the brother of Jesus executed around AD 62 by High Priest Ananus ben Ananus (reported by Josephus, Antiquities 20.9.1).
  5. Peter and Paul were executed under Nero.

The Neronic Persecution broke out in AD 64 after Christians were scapegoated for the fire many scholars say that Nero intentionally started. It lasted 2 years and many Christians were martyred. The earliest and most important account comes from Tacitus (Annals 15.44), a hostile but highly credible Roman historian:

“Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace.”

During the AD 60s, Christians lived and died during extremely tumultuous times.

  • Being covered in animal skins and torn apart by dogs
  • Crucifixion
  • Being burned alive as human torches to light Nero’s gardens at night
  • State sponsored violence
  • False accusations
  • Public executions
  • Betrayal and fear
  • Excluded from trade guilds
  • Accused of secret crimes (incest, cannibalism—misunderstandings of Eucharist language)
  • Viewed as disloyal for refusing emperor worship

This was the first documented state-sponsored persecution of Christians. Tertullian would later summarize their legacy:

“The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the Church.”

In China as I write, there are widespread crackdowns on “house churches”.
Chinese authorities have conducted major police operations against unregistered Protestant congregations — including large raids in Wenzhou (“China’s Jerusalem”), detaining hundreds of worshippers and demolishing church buildings just before Christmas. These actions involved significant police deployment and have been described as among the largest crackdowns on Christians in decades. Source

Arrests of pastors and church members. Multiple leaders and members of underground churches — such as Early Rain Covenant Church — were detained in early January 2026, with some still held in undisclosed locations and charging information limited. Source

China still ranks as a top persecutor of Christians globally. Watchdog lists of countries where Christians face the most severe persecution continue to include China among the worst places for believers. Source

Many scholars and researchers estimate there are 70 million to 100 million+ Christians which includes registered and unregistered (house) churches.

Is this not proof that to apply

I am not trying to be obtuse, but this undermines Sarah’s contention that Jesus uttered this blanket statement to all Christians in all times. It is dubious at best.

I [Jesus] also know the plans I [Jesus] have for you: plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.

I truly don’t want to offend people who love Jesus Calling. And, as I said, it’s very difficult to challenge words uttered by Jesus. But I have spent the last 25 years doing everything in my power to promote apologetics and accentuate the Bible’s supreme authority. In this woke, subjective world, I think it’s critically important to maintain the foundations of our faith. And Sola Scriptura is a bedrock. We need to defend the Bible against all skeptics. It’s being viciously attacked from every quarter. And I think the way Sarah has written her Jesus Calling causes major concern.

#13  The Jesus in Jesus Calling does not sound like the Jesus of the Bible.
In 10 Serious Problems with Jesus Calling, Tim Challies wrote: 

It can’t be denied: The Jesus of Sarah Young sounds suspiciously like a twenty-first century, Western, middle-aged woman. If this is, indeed, Jesus speaking, we need to explain why he sounds so markedly different from the Jesus of the gospels or the Jesus of the book of Revelation. Nowhere in Scripture do we find Jesus (or his Father) speaking like this: “When your Joy in Me meets My Joy in you, there are fireworks of heavenly ecstasy.” Or again, “Wear my Love like a cloak of Light, covering you from head to toe.” And, “Bring me the sacrifice of your precious time. This creates sacred space around you—space permeated with My Presence and My Peace.” Why does Jesus suddenly speak in such different language?

#14 Is the sole criteria of a book’s validity the fact that many praise it?
Many are inclined to think so. But are we are challenged to be faithful Bereans, testing everything against the Bible. We do it with every book except Jesus Calling. It is bulletproofed because Sarah proclaims she’s written the direct words of Jesus?

Will it help people? The testimony of millions shout, “Yes and Amen”. But is that the proper measuring stick? People benefit from unsound theological books all the time. Many came to Christ because of the fear mongering of being “Left Behind” after reading the Late Great Planet Earth…which, in my view, was one of the most biblically unsound books written in the modern era. God can and does use all means to shape and mold His people. But, the question is, is it prudent to use Jesus Calling when there are hundreds of soundly written devotionals which don’t speak in first person Jesus? And if you say yes, who’s going to pick up the pieces when a torrent of similar books flood the scene blurring the lines of biblical inspiration and authority?

Additional Critiques:

  1. https://www.9marks.org/review/book-review-jesus-calling-by-sarah-young/
  2. https://www.epm.org/resources/2018/Jun/18/some-concerns-about-jesus-calling-and-thoughts-suf/
  3. https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justin-taylor/kathy-keller-why-sarah-youngs-jesus-calling-is-unhelpful-and-to-be-avoided/
  4. https://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-Calling.html
  5. https://www.challies.com/articles/10-serious-problems-with-jesus-calling/
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ICE, Rome, Righteousness and the Governing Authorities – Dan Norcini

In regard to recent conversations I have had dealing with the rise of lawlessness in this nation, especially among those on the left who are accelerating their obstruction to law enforcement efforts by ICE to rid communities of criminal illegals, I am including a section from the Apostle Paul’s letter to the Christians at Rome.

Keep in mind when reading this, that when this letter was written, Rome, while yet to see the rise of the beast Nero and his fanatical persection of Christians, was still no friend to the followers of Christ. Previous to his letter ( approximately 57 AD) , the emperor Caligula (37-41 AD) had commanded images of himself to be set up in temples and worshipped and claimed to be divine. Not exactly someone who would view both the Jews and Christians with a great deal of admiration!

I chose a particular translation of the Bible that I rarely use ( I prefer the New American Standard Bible) but which I found to have a very good rendering of chapter 13 of his letter.

From the New Testament for Everyone translation: Romans 13: 1- 5:

“Every person must be subject to the ruling authorities. There is no authority, you see, except from God, and those that exist have been put in place by God. As a result, anyone who rebels against authority is resisting what God has set up, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terrors for people who do good, but only for people who do evil.

If you want to have no fear of the ruling power, do what is good, and it will praise you. It is God’s servant, you see, for you and your good. But if you do evil, be afraid; the sword it carries is no empty gesture. It is God’s servant, you see: an agent of justice to bring his anger on evildoers. That is why it is necessary to submit, not only to avoid punishment but because of conscience.”

There is so much to unpack in this which time and space preclude me from entering into, but a quick synopsis is appropos to the woman who was shot and killed while interfering with the law enforcement actions of ICE.

The Scriptures teach us that man’s nature has been corrupted by sin as a result of the fall of Adam Without some sort of restraint upon his tendency to do evil, life here would soon become a horror and freedom would vanish. The law of the jungle would prevail in which the strong would dominate the weak and crush those who refuse to submit to their will. God, in his infinite goodness, therefore has given us institutions that are there to restrain this tendency towards evil. One of those is what Paul is referring to.

Consider for a moment this statement from the book of Ecclesiastes:

“Because the sentence against an evil deed is not executed quickly, therefore the hearts of the sons of men are fully given to do evil. “ (Eccl 8:11)

When there are no consequences to lawbreaking, evil increases in a land. Tell me that this is not the very truth we are learning at this time in our country? Yet the means to avoid this is to understand what the Apostle Paul is teaching us; namely, that God has given the governing authorities “the sword”, the instrument to punish evildoers in his day, to mete out His vengeance against lawlessness. As he states, they are “His agents of justice to bring His anger upon evildoers.”

Those who resist the efforts of our law enforcement agents to rid our communities of violent illegals are not merely resisting these officers, but God Himself. Removing evildoers from our midst, those who have no legal right to be here in the first place I should add, is the express plan of God to provide for our good and our safety. Yet we see a growing number of radical leftists, egged on by their corrupt political leaders, constantly inserting themselves into this process and interfering with it, obstructing it in every manner possible.

Yet in spite of the absolute clarity of the Apostle Paul in this matter, there are still some “professing Christians” who are defending these lawbreakers and acting as their apologists. Those that do so have no understanding of the Scriptures, nor do they understand the ordinances that God has provided out of His goodness to curb the proliferation of evil.

Instead they cry up a false Christ who is all about love and knows nothing of justice nor of righteousness. Their idea of the love of Christ is that He sits idly by allowing evil to prosper and overrun societies to the point that they soon devolve into hell holes of wickedness and death. The more innocent people are killed by criminals, the more women are raped, the more drugs ravage our communities, the more robberies, vandalism and theft left unchecked, apparently the more these clueless “christians” believe that the love of Christ is demonstrated. What fools these have become!

I will leave you with some quotations from various passages in Scripture:

“The wicked strut about on every side, when vileness is exalted among the sons of mankind.: (Psalm 12:8)

“An unjust person is an abomination to the righteous, and one who is upright in the way is an abomination to the wicked” (Proverbs 29:27)

“Evil shall slay the wicked, and those who hate the righteous will be condemned.” (Psalm 34:21)

“By the blessing of the upright a city is exalted, but by the mouth of the wicked it is torn down.” (Proverbs 11:11)

“The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, and the one who loves violence His soul hates.” (Psalm 11:5)

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In a related matter, this pastor’s thoughts regarding illegal immigration are particularly apropos.

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Who Is the Ancient of Days in Daniel 7? – William Bell

Daniel 7, a hotbed for eschatological theorizing, continues to baffle commentators, past and present. The solution to the identity of the Ancient of Days is in my opinion, one that is without controversy. The most common designation this obviously Divine character is God himself. This view largely stems from the reading of the text.

Variant renderings are:

The Son of Man comes to the Ancient of Days
The Son of Man comes as the Ancient of Days

In the first rendering the Father is meant. In the second it refers to the Son. Can we solve
this debate of Who is the Ancient of Days in Daniel 7?

Have you ever overlooked the obvious when it was right in front of you? Objects like eyeglasses sitting on your desk, but you search all over the house because you can’t find them.

Recently, I had difficulty finding the exit in the airport. Over the weekend, I flew to San
Francisco, CA from Memphis. The first stop was Minneapolis. It was a long trek through the airport to the terminal. I made it with no problem. From there, it was off to San Francisco. Again, no problem navigating my way through the airport.

On the return trip, I flew into Detroit. Again, another long trek for my connecting flight. Even took the shuttle without getting lost. But, making my way back to Memphis, I could not recognize what was right in front of me, the exit to baggage claim.

Instead, I took a circuitous scenic stroll through the airport before figuring out I was headed the wrong way. The exit was so obvious I missed it. But I turned around and retraced my steps and the within a few steps of the gate from which I exited the plane was the baggage terminal.

Well, that’s the way today’s topic is, a few steps away. Follow the article and I will serve as your tour guide to the solution to a problem that baffles many.

The answer lies in how one approaches the text of Daniel 7:13. The clues supporting the solution we offer can be verified from several passages in the New Testament.

But first, look at the clues from the text which are:

  • The natural division in Daniel 7.
  • The inspired interpretation in the chapter
  • The evidence from the gospels
  • The evidence from the Apocalypse

The Natural Division

The question, “Who is the Ancient of Days in Daniel 7?“, is answered by noting the natural division of the chapter. The chapter is divided into two main segments.

  • The first is the dream, 1–16.
  • The second is the interpretation of the dream, 17–28.

To interpret divine dreams requires divine inspiration. As noted in Daniel chapter 2, “There is a God in heaven who reveals secrets.”

God had made known to Daniel the interpretation of the image in chapter two. (2:19, 28). Why should we expect anything different here? Daniel’s own words express his utter inability to interpret the dream.

“I, Daniel was grieved in my spirit within my body, and the visions of my head troubled me.” (v. 15) How did the prophet spell apocalyptic relief? He asked God for the answer. Simple enough? We think so.

“I came near to one of those who stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me and made known to me the interpretation of these things.” (7:16).

Ah! What a revelation? What an ingenious method for understanding the scriptures. Just
ask God for the answer. Daniel walked away with a headache after hearing the meaning of the dream, but now its cause is not from ignorance or not knowing. Rather, it is from knowing what the dream meant. What follows in verses 16–27 is God’s answer to Daniel.

Luckily for us, the clues to identify the Ancient of Days are found in this section. Whatever may be the obscurity in translating the Hebrew in verse 13, is eliminated by the
more lucid text in verses 21–22:

“I was watching; and the same horn was
making war with against the saints, and
prevailing against them until the Ancient
of Days came, and a judgment was made
in favor of the Most High, and the time
came for the saints to possess the kingdom.

In the vision, the saints are Christians who engage in battle against the little horn. There
is no possible way this could happen in A.D. 30. Many want to make it the Ascension of Christ to the Father, but there was no war going on between Christians and their enemy at the ascension.

Why, because there was no enemy of Christians prior to Christ’s ascension (Acts 1:11). Why? Because there were no Christians before Jesus ascended to the Father. *(The Jews were enemies of Christ and His followers throughout Jesus’s ministry, but the more severe persecution didn’t ramp up until quite some time after the ascension. cwc) 

Thus, no judgment could be rendered to stop an ongoing battle against the saints (Christians) and the little horn at that time. That forever rules out Pentecost of A.D. 30 as a viable solution. The battle continues until a judgment is rendered in the saint’s favor against the little horn with whom they were at war.

The focus is the eschatological judgment resulting in the kingdom being awarded in their favor. See Matthew 25:31–34.  At the coming of the Son of Man, the saints inherit the kingdom. Thus, according to the interpretation in the vision, it is the Ancient of Days who comes in judgment.

That refers to Christ, not the Father.

Further evidences for this view are the parallel texts in the gospels. Matthew 24:30, speaks of the coming of the Son of Man in judgment upon Jerusalem in A.D. 70. The text is quoted from Daniel 7:13. Jesus, in this verse, identifies himself as the Son of Man who comes as the Ancient of Days in judgment.

Because the Jews knew this figure represented a Divine being in the apocalyptic imagery, is evidence from Caiaphas’ charge that Christ, again referring to the Danielic text, blasphemed.

But Jesus kept silent, And the high priest answered and said to Him, I put you under
oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!”

Jesus said to him, It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

Then the high priest tore his clothes, saying, ‘He has spoken blasphemy!…(Matthew 26:6465)

The text is a direct allusion to Daniel 7:13, and the coming of the Son of Man. Jesus claims to be the Ancient of Days, hence a divine being resulted in his conviction of a crime worthy of crucifixion.

Evidence from Revelation

Finally, the book of Revelation gives clues as to the true identify of the Ancient of Days. Once again, there can be no mistake that Christ is the reference. Consider the description of the Ancient of Days in Daniel 7:9. He adorns a garment white as snow, and hair like pure wool.

Compare the vision in Revelation:

Chapter 1:13, shows the High Priest, i.e. the Most High, among the seven lamp stands, and
in their midst, one like the Son of Man. . .

Observe the attire.

“. . . clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band. His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and His eyes like a flame of fire; His feet were like fine brass, as if refined in a furnace,  and His voice as the sound of many waters.”

This is the description of the Ancient of Days. The identity is unmistakable. The Son of Man is Jesus, the Christ.

This article is from allthingsfulfilled.com.

____________________________________

Pastor Zach Davis, in his 3rd rebuttal of Brian Schwertley’s frontal attack on fuliflled eschatology, made the point that Daniel 7, Rev 1, Acts 1, Matt 24; Matt 26; and 1 Thess 4 cannot be separated. They all speak of the same cloud coming. At the 14:48 video mark, Zach also addressed the common assumption that Daniel 7:13 is referring to Christ’s ascension. Given the arguments by William Bell, Zach Davis and FF Bruce, the evidence seems conclusive that Daniel 7 is referring to Christ’s coming in judgment in the Jewish /Roman War circa AD 66-70.

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A Brief thought on the outcome of the 2024 election – Dan Norcini

I believe that I can speak for most Bible-believing Christians when I say that we have watched in utter dismay at the moral madness that has descended upon our beloved nation.

It has been going on for many years now as the nation descends further into lawlessness and wickedness, straying far from its Judeo-Christian roots, but the climax has been the unnatural and perverse ideology that accepts the premise that there are some men who believe that they are actually women, trapped in a man’s body. This entirely devilish doctrine charges God, the creator of all things and sustainer of all things, with making a grave mistake when giving life to His creatures.

In all my years of existence on this earth, I have never witnessed something so utterly stupid and idiotic and yet we have a major political party in this nation which not only sees nothing wrong or unnatural about this, but actually goes out of its way to malign anyone who challenges this nonsense.

That this thinking has been accepted by far too many is yet another sign of God giving some over to a reprobate mind so that they believe a lie. That is the reason I watched this election closely as I genuinely feared that we had gone too far and sinned against light to such a degree that God had washed His hands of this land.

Yet, we have good reason to give thanks to our longsuffering and most merciful and gracious God who hearkened to the prayers of His people, pleading with Him to spare us and our children from any more of this madness. The outcome of this election has granted us a reprieve from our misery.

In considering this moment of grace, I was reminded of a passage in the book of Ezra, chapter 9, which dealt with the situation that the remnant of Israel, who had been in captivity to Babylon and had now returned to their own land which was under the jurisdiction of the Persian empire, were facing.

After their initial return to the land, some of the princes of their nation had taken wives from among the original inhabitants of the land, (the Canaanites and others such as the Moabites, Egyptians and Ammonites) and had also fathered children from these unions. This had been expressly forbid by the Lord in the law of Moses which stated categorically that the holy race was NOT to intermarry among the inhabitants of the land. God in His infinite wisdom knew that these unions would lead Israel into idolatry and unfaithfulness, along with all the perversions that these nations had been guilty of.

When Ezra was informed of this, he was both heartbroken, angry, dismayed and crushed as he knew how grievous an offense this was against the Law and that it was sins like this which had provoked the anger of God that had led Him to hurl them out of the land of promise and into their long Babylonian captivity. This godly man trembled when he learned of this, tore his garment and fell to the ground to beg the Lord’s forgiveness. It is a portion of his prayer which I believe that the Lord, through His good Spirit, brought to my mind this past evening and that is what I wish to share with you.

“Since the days of our fathers to this day we have been in great guilt, and on account of our iniquities we, our kings and our priests have been given into the hand of the kings of the lands, to the sword, to captivity and to plunder and to open shame, as it is this day. 8 But now for a brief moment grace has been shown from the Lord our God, to leave us an escaped remnant and to give us a peg in His holy place, that our God may enlighten our eyes and grant us a little reviving in our bondage.” (Ezra 9:7-8)

Ezra understood that God had been incredibly gracious to this remnant and his fear was that they had already forgotten how merciful He had been with them and were taking for granted this respite from their bondage. He called for action on the part of those who had committed these sins which would denote a true and genuine repentance.

I believe that God, in much the same way, has granted our nation a “brief moment of grace” in spite of our provocations. Let us not go on our merry ways, taking this mercy from heaven for granted, and returning to our sins but rather let us show Him out gratitude for His kindness by striving to live so as to please Him, walking righteously and with integrity and humility. Remember, to whom much is given, much is required. Do not allow the awful sin of ingratitude to overcome us but rather take time to meditate on His goodness to we who are so undeserving of all the kindnesses He has shown to us.
I am including a large portion of chapter 9 below so that you can read it and get the full impact of it.

Yours in Christ Jesus,
Dan Norcini SS

“But at the evening offering I arose from my humiliation, even with my garment and my robe torn, and I fell on my knees and stretched out my hands to the Lord my God; 6 and I said, “O my God, I am ashamed and embarrassed to lift up my face to You, my God, for our iniquities have risen above our heads and our guilt has grown even to the heavens. 7 Since the days of our fathers to this day we have been in great guilt, and on account of our iniquities we, our kings and our priests have been given into the hand of the kings of the lands, to the sword, to captivity and to plunder and to open shame, as it is this day.

8 But now for a brief moment grace has been shown from the Lord our God, to leave us an escaped remnant and to give us a peg in His holy place, that our God may enlighten our eyes and grant us a little reviving in our bondage. 9 For we are slaves; yet in our bondage our God has not forsaken us, but has extended lovingkindness to us in the sight of the kings of Persia, to give us reviving to raise up the house of our God, to restore its ruins and to give us a wall in Judah and Jerusalem.

10 “Now, our God, what shall we say after this? For we have forsaken Your commandments, 11 which You have commanded by Your servants the prophets, saying, ‘The land which you are entering to possess is an unclean land with the uncleanness of the peoples of the lands, with their abominations which have filled it from end to end and with their impurity. 12 So now do not give your daughters to their sons nor take their daughters to your sons, and never seek their peace or their prosperity, that you may be strong and eat the good things of the land and leave it as an inheritance to your sons forever.’

13 After all that has come upon us for our evil deeds and our great guilt, since You our God have requited us less than our iniquities deserve, and have given us an escaped remnant as this, 14 shall we again break Your commandments and intermarry with the peoples who commit these abominations? Would You not be angry with us to the point of destruction, until there is no remnant nor any who escape? 15 O Lord God of Israel, You are righteous, for we have been left an escaped remnant, as it is this day; behold, we are before You in our guilt, for no one can stand before You because of this.” (Ezra 9: 7-15)

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God Works – Dan Norcini

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Gnosticism

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Glorifying in the Cross – Dan Norcini

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A Critique of the Corporate Body View of the Resurrection of the Dead

Jerel Kratt

I have been a believer in fulfilled prophecy for over eight years now. At the beginning of my journey, the two biggest hurdles to overcome as a partial preterist were the resurrection of the dead and the millennium. These two items are likely the two biggest items of debate within the preterist world still today. I began to study these two items deeply, and immediately after accepting the one and only second coming of Christ in AD70, I joined a private email study group composed of all the major public proponents of what is called the “Corporate Body View” (hereafter, “CBV”) of the resurrection.

If you are not familiar with this view, it is essentially that the “resurrection of the dead,” specifically in texts like 1 Cor. 15, does not refer to individual dead people departing Hades, but to the corporate or collective body of saints, both alive and dead, coming out of Judaism and into the church or the “body” of Christ. I quickly adopted this view because it seemed tremendously logical and straightforward. I immersed myself into the works of Max King, who was considered to have written the definitive work explaining a corporate body view of the resurrection of the dead. I have written a few articles on the subject over the years, and spoken at three different Preterist Pilgrim Weekends on the subject of resurrection.

As I continued to study these subjects and engage other preterist Christians who had different views on the resurrection, I started seeing problems with many of the arguments made to defend a corporate body view of the resurrection of the dead. This paper seeks to analyze those problems and propose a solution.

Each titled section in this paper is a critique of the each of the most important arguments made in the CBV. At the end, I offer a possible solution that honors the corporate and covenantal aspects of the story from Genesis to Revelation, but also gives clarity to what happened (and happens today?) to the individual.

“Our Body”

It could easily be said that the most foundational argument of the CBV is that the use of the phrase “our body” (a plural possessive pronoun with a singular noun) by Paul in resurrection-related passages indicates that only a corporate body resurrection can be in view and that numerous individual bodies cannot be in view. This has been the view of every CBV speaker at all the Preterist Pilgrim Weekends on the topic of resurrection – Preston, Scott, Bell, Curtis, etc., and was specifically the argument made by King in “The Cross and the Parousia.” It is based on a basic Greek grammar rule which says that generally, pronouns and nouns should agree in number. Therefore, if the noun “body” is singular following a plural pronoun such as “our,” then the meaning is to be understood as a single corporate “body” (group, collective) to which everyone who is addressed belongs.

However, there are exceptions to this Greek rule, and context determines which way it goes. It was possible to use a plural possessive pronoun with a singular noun in order to put emphasis on the noun. This usage was not meant to communicate the existence of only one noun collectively for all those represented by the plural pronoun. I will demonstrate this by looking at some advanced Greek Grammars and citing some scriptural examples. Those examples will also be looked at via the context of surrounding passages.

In Wallace’s Grammar (pg. 399-406), he lists several categories of pronoun/noun number agreement: “collective singular subjects, compound subjects, indefinite plurals, and categorical plurals.” Both Robertson’s Grammar and Blass and Debrunner’s Grammar discuss this phenomenon, calling them “idiomatic plurals and singulars,” and constructio ad sensum (“construction according to the sense”), respectively. Turner’s Grammar says that using a plural pronoun with a singular noun in order to put emphasis on the noun, but not deny the plurality of the noun, was a common Hebraism: “Contrary to normal Greek and Latin practice, the NT sometimes follows the Aramaic and Hebrew preference for a distributive singular. Something belonging to each person in a group is placed in the singular: as in, TO SOMA HUMON (1 Cor. 6:19) and EN TE KARDIA AUTON (Luke 1:66).”

Therefore, according to the rules of grammar, it wouldn’t be wrong to first consider the singular noun option, but the plural noun should also be considered; it could go either way based on context. The words “our (plural) body (singular)” in and of themselves do not prove a corporate body is in view.

The primary singular body CBV texts are: Romans 8:23 (NASB) “And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body; and Philippians 3:21 (NASB) “who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.”

Romans is challenging because concepts of corporate identity exist throughout – identity based on the law, on sin, and on covenant. “Flesh” (Greek: sarx) is a word used by Paul, which is often argued by CBV advocates to be a mode of existence based on the Law (in fact, I wrote a paper on this very position about 7 years ago, borrowing mostly from Max King). Indeed, life under the law was a “wretched” existence according to Paul (7:24). This is a good and acceptable understanding of “flesh” here in Romans 7 & 8.

However, “the flesh” had a more protracted meaning than “covenantal mode of existence” in the ancient Greek, and in Paul’s writings. According to the highly respected scholar F.F. Bruce (Paul: Apostle of the Heart Set Free, 1977), “flesh” primarily referred to human nature, and was seen as the locus of temptation and sin; not literally in biological tissue, but more holistically in the individual as a whole person. That is, when one would say “his mind was set on the flesh” they meant he was living according to his own human nature, not brought under control by the mind of God through His Spirit (e.g. Gal. 5:16-21).

Of course, a corporate solidarity exists for those who were under the Law, for they all shared the same fate and were all under the same covenant. But the meaning of “in the flesh” should not be stretched beyond its normal use in order to exclude it – that is, it would be incorrect to define the meaning of “in the flesh” as only a covenantal “mode of existence” to the exclusion of the individual’s human nature as sinful. The human nature is general and primary; the covenantal mode of existence is specific within that general category. One text that makes this point clear is Galatians 2:18-20.

(ESV) “For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. (19) For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. (20) I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.”

It is clear here that being under the law is not the same as being in the flesh, since Paul said that he died to the law yet was still in the flesh. And, Gentiles who had not formerly known God or were in a covenantal mode of existence under the Law were also said to be “in the flesh” (see Gal. 4:8-9 with 5:13ff). So it might be better stated that being “in the flesh” in the above texts is not specifically talking about biological tissue, and while a having covenantal background are most certainly and primarily talking about being “human.”

What is problematic to the single-body view of Romans 8:23 is the plurality of individuals discussed throughout that chapter. For example:

(8:11) (NASB) “…will also give life to your mortal bodies

Verse 11 is a tricky verse for the CBV advocates. Over my years of study with them on this, no solid contextual answer has ever been given without resorting to a lot of imposing of foreign concepts into the text. Next we will look at verse 13:

(8:13) (NASB) “for if you [plural] are living according to the flesh, you [plural] must die; but if by the Spirit you [plural] are putting to death the deeds of the body, you [plural] will live.”

Contextually it cannot be the deeds of a corporate body (such as of Moses, Adam or Christ) being put to death, but rather must be the individual deeds of each person because of what is said in the next verse:

(8:14) NASB “For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.”

Paul’s point was that there were individual members of the body of Christ who were not putting to death the sinful deeds of their own individual selves, with the result that some would live (spiritually) and some would die (spiritually). This is seen clearly by Paul’s use of “so then” (Greek: ara) in 8:12, which is a particle denoting inference, the drawing of a decisive conclusion regarding the “mortal bodies”:

(8:12) NASB “So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.”

Since each individual Roman believers had been set free from the law of sin and death, they each one then must not live according to the sinful human nature aroused by the law. Why? Because (a) the Spirit was within each of them, and (b) they were about to suffer with Christ through the great persecution, which would (c) result in each one who overcomes being glorified with Christ:

(8:16-17) NASB “The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, (17) and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.”

The CBV also misses or de-emphasizes the theme of martyrdom in this chapter. The second half of Romans 8 (vs. 18-39) is built around a promise to people (in Rome) about to be martyred under the persecution of Nero, and is meant to teach them that when they are martyred they will be glorified like Christ was after his martyrdom. This Neronic persecution, which followed the Jewish persecution they were then receiving, was the “suffering” and “pains of childbirth” in Rom. 8:18 & 22 (cf. Matt. 24:7-9):

Romans 8:18, 22 NASB “For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us… (22) For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.”

So when we get to the phrase “redemption of our body” (8:23), a singular noun with a plural pronoun, it does not prove that ONLY one body (i.e. a corporate body) would be raised. Individual “bodies” is what Paul meant in this chapter when he used the word “soma,” based on its use in verse 11 (“your mortal bodies”). Paul would be using the idiomatic plural here, a Hebraic construction, or constructio ad sensum (construction according to the sense).

In addition to all the plural nouns applicable to each Roman Christian in this chapter (“sons,” “heirs,” “hearts,” “saints”), we can see here that the promise was that the Spirit would help each individual person in their weakness, searching each person’s heart:

(8:26-27) NASB “In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; (27) and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.”

This was not a promise to the weakness of a corporate body (notice “our weakness” is a plural pronoun with a singular noun); that would be incredibly impotent and impersonal with the upcoming tribulation. Rather, it was to the “hearts” of the “saints.”

This is further confirmed towards the end, once the entire chapter is read as a whole in its context of persecution and distress:

(8:35-36) NASB “Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? (36) Just as it is written, ‘FOR YOUR SAKE WE ARE BEING PUT TO DEATH ALL DAY LONG; WE WERE CONSIDERED AS SHEEP TO BE SLAUGHTERED.’” [emphasis NASB]

The second primary text for a singular corporate body resurrection is Phil. 3:21. Max King (The Cross & the Parousia, pg. 565-573) identified Phil. 3:21 as a clear text that showed that “body” meant a corporate group, not the individual person:

Philippians 3:20-21 ESV “(20) But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, (21) who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.”

There are several problems with a corporate body view here. I will engage these problems in three major points.

First, what is the lowly body? The phrase “lowly body” (ESV), “vile body” (KJV), “body of our humble state” (NASB) in Greek is soma tes tapeinoseos, which literally is “body of our humiliation.” It is usually claimed in the CBV that the “lowly body” is the corporate body of Israel to which the Apostle and other Jews were still in the process of dying (TC&TP, pg. 572). This is argued primarily because Paul discussed the Judaizing “dogs” earlier in Phil. 3, and expressed his historic solidarity with Israel and his movement out of the Law of Moses. King argues:

“Since the law set forth a mode of somatic existence wherein sin and death were able to reign, it follows that victory through Christ is by means of a new mode of existence wherein life and righteousness reign. We conclude, therefore, that (1) somatic change is determined by a change in one’s mode of existence, (2) this is accomplished through a change from the Old to the New covenant, (3) covenantal change was the specific design of Christ’s pre-end-of-the-age reign, and from that viewpoint, Paul ties somatic change in v. 21 to the working of Christ.” [Emphasis King’s] (pg. 573)

While I disagree with King’s interpretation of this text as applied to the “body,” I am not denying the overlapping of covenants during this transition period nor Paul’s past as a Jew under the Law. The problem for King is there are no actual written statements by NT authors or direct, concrete evidence that covenantal change = somatic change. This is a theory, strung together on facts assumed to connect to each other, much like how reformed theories of atonement are strung together. This will become clearer as we continue.

A basic rule of preterist interpretation is to pay attention to the pronouns and see who is being addressed. The pronoun “our” in Phil. 3:20 contextually can only be Paul’s entire audience in Philippi (at least, all those who are “perfect”):

Philippians 3:15 NASB “Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you;”

The church in Philippi was likely composed of Jews (cf. Acts 16:12ff; Lydia likely being a Jewish proselyte), but also of Greeks who never would have been in the corporate body of Israel. The text doesn’t indicate two lowly corporate bodies (one for Jews and the other for Gentiles), so the context of “our” being all of Paul’s audience in Philippi precludes the typical corporate body view of dying to old covenant Israel, since the Greeks were never in the old covenant body of Moses (and I will demonstrate later that Gentile converts to Christ did not enter into the old covenant body of Moses). It would have to be some other “covenantal body” which included both Jews and Greeks that Paul had in mind if he was indeed referring to a corporate body.

Some CBV advocates say the “body of humiliation” is not the old covenant body of Moses as King specified, but rather is the body of Christ, the church, which did contain both Jews and Gentiles. If the “lowly body” was the church/the body of Christ, then it seems to contradict other more specific passages about the church being “pure, spotless, undefiled, a bride,” etc.

2 Corinthians 11:2 ESV “For I feel a divine jealousy for you, since I betrothed you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ.”

Ephesians 5:25-27 ESV “Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, (26) that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, (27) so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.”

1 Peter 2:4, 5, 7a, 9 ESV “As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, (5) you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ… (7) So the honor is for you who believe … (9) But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.”

Do any of these passages sound like the body of Christ is “lowly” or of “humble state”? While possible, it doesn’t seem intuitively likely.

Leaving the discussion on the “lowly body” for a brief moment, I’d like to look at the context of the entire epistle, which I believe shows that the best meaning of “lowly body” is the individual person. Every other instance of this word “lowly” (Greek: tapeinosei) – three other times in the NT – refer to specific individuals found in a state of humiliation (see Luke 1:48; Acts 8:33; James 1:10).

Here in Phil. 3:21, the form of this word is a noun. The verb form of this word, etapeinosen, is used of Jesus just one chapter earlier in Phil 2:8 (ESV):

“(6) who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. (8) And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.”

Notice that the verb points to Jesus’ humble state as a “human.” This fits with every other NT use of this word. The most logical way to determine this word’s meaning is to see how Paul used it elsewhere in the same letter. As we have already seen, he used it in reference to Jesus’ “human form,” which leads to the simple conclusion that Paul was referring to the individual human, not the church, when he used the phrase “lowly body.”

Second, notice in the preceding verse (3:20) the location of both the citizenship and the Savior: “heaven.” The most straightforward contextual explanation is that the individual bodies of the saints in Philippi would be transformed into the same type of heavenly body as Jesus possessed in heaven. In refutation of this, CBV advocates usually point out the corporate solidarity Paul had as a Jew with the Law and the body of Moses from previous verses in chapter 3. While Paul certainly identified as belonging to that community, he also thoroughly repudiated it (3:7-8). Paul then made a personal plea for his own individual resurrection: “that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead” (3:11). One’s covenantal status surely dictated the end result in the resurrection, but this does not negate the individual tone clearly present in this text.

At this point, CBV advocates usually counter-argue (as I have done in the past) that the fact that Paul would say he hoped “by any means possible” to “attain the resurrection,” followed by “not that I’ve already obtained it,” would be an odd thing to say if he is talking about a corpse resurrection, or even an invisible individual bodily resurrection out of Hades, since it would be obvious that he hadn’t obtained it yet because he was still living! And, if it was the general resurrection of the dead, doesn’t everyone (both the just and the unjust) participate in it to be judged? If so, why would Paul “hope” to be part of something that he had no choice over?

While I am certainly not arguing for a corpse resurrection, I do believe that Paul used rhetoric designed to demonstrate that even in his imprisonment, he felt he hadn’t yet “completed the race” of his apostolic ministry as it were. This seems to reflect some sort of maturity benchmark. Notice 2 Timothy, which would be during Paul’s last imprisonment before his death:

2 Timothy 2:3-10 ESV “Share in suffering as a good soldier of Christ Jesus. (4) No soldier gets entangled in civilian pursuits, since his aim is to please the one who enlisted him. (5) An athlete is not crowned unless he competes according to the rules. (6) It is the hard-working farmer who ought to have the first share of the crops. (7) Think over what I say, for the Lord will give you understanding in everything. (8) Remember Jesus Christ, risen from the dead, the offspring of David, as preached in my gospel, (9) for which I am suffering, bound with chains as a criminal. But the word of God is not bound! (10) Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.”

Though the Greek word here for “may obtain” is not exactly the same as “may attain” in Phil. 3:11-12, it is very similar in meaning and communicates the same idea. This passage clearly describes striving for maturity and holiness as striving for salvation and the attainment of glory, just as Paul did in Phil. 3. “Striving” is very uncomfortable for evangelicals based on our “grace vs. works” mentality. But we know from what we read above that Paul clearly saw the need to continue to strive for holiness and perfection “in order to attain” both resurrection and salvation.

1 John 3 also emphasizes purity in connection with seeing Christ, which I believe is connected with the idea of seeing God “face to face” (or “eye to eye”).

1 John 3:2-3 ESV “Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. (3) And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.”

Notice the emphasis on purifying oneself. This connects with the striving theme above. I might also note here that this passage seems to strongly indicate a transformation of each/all of the children into being like Christ at his parousia, rather than a legal transformation of a corporate body. This seems intuitively clear by how John said he and they didn’t know what they would be like when Jesus returned. If this was talking about covenant transition, this would be a ridiculous thing to say since they were preaching exactly what a new covenant without an old covenant would look like.

One of the most important examples of striving till the end might be Revelation 3. In the seven letters, some are told that if they endure to the end (i.e. if they die as martyrs in the persecution), they will be saved. But some, because of their spiritual maturity, will get to skip the whole tribulation:

Rev. 3:10-11 ESV “Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth. (11) I am coming soon. Hold fast what you have, so that no one may seize your crown.

The implications of this are interesting and are more than we can discuss here. The point remains that it is not outside the scope of Paul’s teaching for him to write “not that I have attained it” in order to emphasize continued need to work and strive for holiness.

Third, it’s not just in Phil. 3:21 where Paul employs a plural possessive pronoun with a singular noun (“our body”). The two preceding verses (3:19-20) have four occurrences: “whose end is destruction,” “whose god is their appetite,” “whose glory is their shame,” and “our citizenship is in heaven.” Each of the Christ-deniers had their own destruction, their own appetite, and their own shame. Each citizen of heaven had their own citizenship. One might argue that there was a corporate solidarity in each of the two groups, and that is certainly true, but we can know for certain that the singular nouns were distributive because of how Paul employed a plural noun with a plural pronoun in the same sentence construction: “who set their minds on earthly things.” Paul had no problem switching between singular and plural nouns with plural pronouns.

A rather clear example of how Paul employed the plural possessive pronoun with a singular noun to give emphasis to the noun, yet acknowledge the obvious plurality of the noun, is 1 Thess. 5:23.

(ESV) “Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

Notice how “your” is plural, but the nouns “spirit,” “soul,” and “body” are singular. Paul didn’t mean the corporate spirit, soul and body of the Thessalonian church, he meant the individual spirits, souls and bodies of the Thessalonian saints might be kept until the Parousia. CBV advocates use this text in this way to prove imminence and audience relevance, and they are right to do so. Yet, Paul uses “your (plural) body (singular)” here in Thessalonians, which is the same grammatical construct as “our body” in the two disputed texts.

Other examples of the plural possessive pronoun with a singular noun, but meaning a plurality of the noun distributed to each individual, are:

Luke 6:22 ESV “Blessed are you when people hate you and when they exclude you and revile you and spurn your name as evil, on account of the Son of Man!”

Romans 8:16 ESV “The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,”

Romans 8:26 ESV “Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.”

2 Corinthians 1:12 NASB “For our proud confidence is this: the testimony of our conscience, that in holiness and godly sincerity, not in fleshly wisdom but in the grace of God, we have conducted ourselves in the world, and especially toward you.”

2 Corinthians 6:11 NASB Our mouth has spoken freely to you, O Corinthians, our heart is opened wide.”

1 Thessalonians 2:17 NASB “But we, brethren, having been taken away from you for a short while–in person, not in spirit–were all the more eager with great desire to see your face.”

James 3:3 NASB “Now if we put the bits into the horses’ mouths so that they will obey us, we direct their entire body as well.”

Revelation 13:16 NASB “And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead

The James 3:3 passage is very important, because here we clearly see the singular “body” meaning multiple horses’ bodies.

After looking at all the evidence regarding plural possessive pronouns with singular nouns, it is clear that the CBV claim that the phrase “our body” must be a corporate body is not only contrary to the rules of Greek grammar, but also is contrary to the context of the passages in view.

“Are Being Raised”

A major pillar of the CBV is Paul’s use of the present passive indicative (“PPI”) verb form in 1 Corinthians 15 For example, the numerously used phrase in the text, “are raised,” is argued to technically be, “are being raised.” This is meant to show that there was a dying/rising process underway when Paul wrote. If people were in the process of dying and rising in AD57 when 1 Corinthians was written, then this must prove that the resurrection of the body must be the corporate body of Christ referred to earlier in 1 Cor. 12, so the argument goes. Specifically, this dying and rising process was integrally tied to the changing of the covenants – dying to the law and rising to Christ in the process of redemption and salvation.

Jack Scott taught this view at the 2009 PPW (I was present), Sam Frost wrote about it in his book “Exegetical Essays on the Resurrection,” and William Bell wrote an article on it in Fulfilled! Magazine in 2013. None of them, however, except Scott, site any Greek authorities, who cited from Machen’s “New Testament Greek for Beginners.” Machen said that translating the present passive indicative verb as an ongoing action can communicate better in English, but he also gives caution about doing so.

More advanced Greek studies indicate that the PPI need not always be translated as ongoing, and many times are not unless the context clearly indicates the need for such. A PPI can be an event in the past, an event in the present, an ongoing event in the present, or an event in the future. Greek is complex like that.

Context determines.

Wallace notes several nuances of the present tense: The progressive present, where the action is an ongoing process; the iterative present, where an action repeatedly happens; the gnomic present, where the statement indicates a timeless fact; the futuristic present, where the action is an event in the future. There is also the aorist present, the historical present, and the periphrastic present.

One such example (among many) is 1 Corinthians 3:11 NASB “For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.” “Is laid” is a present passive indicative verb, but it would be wrong to translate it “is being laid,” since that foundation was already laid; what was ongoing was the building upon the foundation (see 3:10). This is an example of a gnomic present. Another example is 1 Corinthians 12:8 NASB “For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit.” Just as in the previous use in 1 Corinthians, the PPI here is not an ongoing process for the individual, but a specific event in the past. The Spirit had already poured out these gifts to the Corinthians, who were employing them in incorrect ways.

In 1 Cor. 15, every time Paul refers to the resurrection of the dead he uses the present passive form, except for one instance at the end, 15:52, where he uses the future passive indicative: “the dead will be raised.” Since according to Wallace the future tense does not admit any present progressive aspect, and since there is no reason to think that Paul was discussing two different resurrections of the dead in this chapter, it seems contradictory for him to imply a progressive aspect in previous instances then deny it in vs. 52. If Paul wanted to indicate a progressive aspect of the resurrection, he would have used a periphrastic future in vs 52 to express this idea (see Wallace, Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, pg. 648).

My point in raising this is not to say that “are raised” cannot be an ongoing action, but that it incorrect to say it must be ongoing simply because it is a present passive indicative. Again, the context of the chapter will determine how to understand what would be raised at the Parousia.

The Prophetic Background

Hosea and the prophets are used in the CBV to demonstrate the covenant change which was underway in the first century. This then is used to prove that the “body” in 1 Cor. 15 is the corporate body of Israel (from Hosea) being raised into the corporate body of Christ. This is a very strong and powerful argument.

Without denying the covenantal death that Israel as a nation was in because of their sin (Hos. 6:1-3; 8:1, 8; 13:1, 12-13), there is also an individual aspect in the passage quoted by Paul in 1 Cor. 15:55. Hosea moves from the corporate identity of “Ephraim” in 13:12 to a plurality of persons in Sheol (Hades):

Hosea 13:14 ESV “Shall I ransom them from the power of Sheol? Shall I redeem them from Death? O Death, where are your plagues? O Sheol, where is your sting? Compassion is hidden from my eyes.”

“Sheol” was the location of the dead in Hebrew thought. Some CBV advocates deny this, claiming Sheol is symbolic for the grave, which is symbolic of covenant death (cut off from the presence of God as a nation). While I agree with the connection to covenant death, a word study of Sheol in the entire OT shows that this word does not fit for grave in most of its uses (see Morey, Death and the Afterlife, pg. 72-93). Sheol as the underworld location of the dead was common in ANE thought and was used throughout the Second Temple literature. One can correctly argue that the word pictures were highly metaphoric and apocalyptically styled (i.e. not to be taken as a literal description), but there is no evidence that Second Temple writers or their audience understood “Sheol” as only a metaphor for covenant death and nothing else. Furthermore, not once did Jesus or any apostle redefine Sheol as a word which held no meaning other than as a metaphor for “covenant death.” Likely the most important NT demonstrating this is Acts 2:31-32, where Peter speaks of Jesus having neither having his flesh see decay in the tomb nor his person being abandoned in the realm of Hades (as most of his contemporaries would have believed).

Paul also referenced Isaiah 25:8 in 1 Cor. 15:54. Covenant judgment in Isaiah 24-27 is absolutely at the forefront. However, it’s not a corporate “body” that is found in this text, but many individual “bodies:”

Isaiah 26:19 (ESV) “Your dead shall live; their bodies shall rise. You who dwell in the dust, awake and sing for joy! For your dew is a dew of light, and the earth will give birth to the dead [plural].”

In fact, there’s not one location in the entire OT where the word “body” is used in a corporate manner, specifically in regard to resurrection language. The only time “body” is used, it is in the plural (Isa. 26:19). The whole “house” of Israel will be raised (Ezek. 37:11), but even here there are plural “graves” (37:12-13) for the “people.” I’m not arguing a literal grave resurrection in Ezekiel; that is not the meaning of this text. My point is that “body” is not used as a singular noun to represent a corporate body in the prophets; when the prophets spoke of resurrection, they say a national/corporate identity resurrection, and a personal individual resurrection out of the realm of the dead.

“Body” in 1 Corinthians

Another argument sometimes made by CBV advocates is how Paul used “body” in a corporate manner throughout 1 Corinthians, so when he gets to chapter 15 he is just continuing that same meaning. It goes without saying that there is not one scholar or expositor who agrees with this, so the burden of proof is on the one making this claim. Nevertheless, I will deconstruct this argument by looking at all the 1 Corinthians passages that have the word “body” in them:

1 Corinthians 5:3 NASB “For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present.”

This is Paul’s personal body.

1 Corinthians 6:13-20 NASB “Food is for the stomach and the stomach is for food, but God will do away with both of them. Yet the body is not for immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord is for the body. (14) Now God has not only raised the Lord, but will also raise us up through His power. (15) Do you not know that your bodies [plural pronoun with a plural noun-jk] are members of Christ? Shall I then take away the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? May it never be! (17) But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him. (18) Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body. (19) Or do you not know that your body [plural pronoun with a singular noun-jk] is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? (20) For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body [plural pronoun with a singular noun-jk].

Here, Paul is addressing individuals in the church and teaching them what they do with their bodies is critically important. Notice that Paul employs both the plural noun “bodies” (vs. 15) and the singular noun “body” (vss. 18, 19). This does not mean that Paul switched from the individual to the corporate. When one understands the rules of grammar (discussed above), then it’s obvious that a singular “body” can also mean plural “bodies.” The words “a man” and “his own body” specifically mean that Paul was addressing the sexual use of each individual person’s body. A common reply by CBV advocates is that the individual is part of the corporate and what they do with their personal body impacts the corporate body. Well, of course it does. No one is denying that. But, that does not prove a corporate meaning of the word “body” here in chapter 6.

1 Corinthians 7:4 NASB “The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does; and likewise also the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.”

1 Corinthians 7:34 NASB “and his interests are divided. The woman who is unmarried, and the virgin, is concerned about the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and spirit; but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how she may please her husband.”

1 Corinthians 9:27 NASB but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.”

These last three are all the individual human body.

1 Corinthians 10:16 NASB “Is not the cup of blessing which we bless a sharing in the blood of Christ? Is not the bread which we break a sharing in the body of Christ?”

Because of the reference to the blood of Christ, this likely refers to the actual body of Christ, connected back to the cross. The cup and the bread were representative of the biological body and blood of Christ that hung on the cross. It could be a reference to the church body, but the “blood of Christ” is not a corporate church reference, so the grammar strongly suggests it is Jesus’ actual human body on the cross.

1 Corinthians 10:17 NASB “Since there is one bread, we who are many are one body; for we all partake of the one bread.”

Now Paul introduces the church as the body of Christ for the first time in the letter.

1 Corinthians 11:24, 27, 29 NASB “and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, ‘This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me.’ (27) Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord. (29) For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly.”

Back to the actual body of Christ (some see “the body” of vs 29 as the church body, but the antecedent referent to “body” belongs to Christ’s own personal body.

1 Corinthians 12:12 NASB “For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ.”

There are 18 uses of the word “body” in chapter 12. I will not list them all. We will just look at this first one, and admit that all those that follow continue the same thought. This text is referring to the church as a corporate body.

It’s important to note here that the first two uses of “the body” in vs. 12 refers to the individual human body as a reference in this teaching. This is connected to the previous verse: (11) NASB “But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.”

Throughout this chapter, Paul uses parts of the individual human body for illustration of the church as the body of Christ. The human body was of such common thought in Greek culture that it was a logical starting point for teaching about how they needed to get along as a church with all their different spiritual gifts.

1 Corinthians 13:3 NASB “And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.”

This is Paul’s human body, again.

1 Corinthians 15:35 NASB “But someone will say, ‘How are the dead raised? And with what kind of body do they come?’”

Obviously we can see that Paul did not consistently apply a corporate meaning to the word “body” in 1 Corinthians. In fact, he overwhelmingly uses the individual human body, and uses the corporate meaning for the first time in chapter 10. The problem of claiming that chapter 15’s use of “body” follows Paul’s “corporate body” flow of thought is further undermined by the fact that Paul returns to the common usage of “body” in chapter 13 as the human body. The continuity argument favors the individual view, not the corporate. Chapter 12 is not defining the word “body,” which was already used 16 time prior to ch. 12 with the already understood meaning of the human body.

Yet even in chapter 12 the teaching is not really about defining what a “corporate body” is, but rather is on correcting certain people’s behavior in the assembly with their individual spiritual gifts, using the human body as a teaching tool for church behavior (“the ear should not say to the eye,” etc.)

Contrary to what is claimed, the evidence shows that a “corporate body” is not the theme of “body” in the entire letter. In fact, it is barely a theme at all except as a pericope in chapter 12 for the proper use of gifts in the assembly.

2 Corinthians 3-5 and Covenant Transition

It is claimed by CBV adherents that covenant transition is the primary topic under consideration in 2 Cor. 3-5. Specifically, it is posited that since covenant transition is directly mentioned in chapter 3, that aspect defines what Paul meant in chapters 4 and 5 regarding “the body.” It is true that covenant transition is directly referred to in chapter 3; however, it is wrong to apply this to every aspect of what Paul said in this section of text, as we will see next.

The letters of 1 & 2 Corinthians have been widely noted and accepted as demonstrating Paul’s command in writing in Greek rhetoric (Witherington III, Conflict and Community). This knowledge is well known today by scholars who have studied contemporary Greek writings and compared them to Paul’s letters. 1 & 2 Corinthians are very Greek letters written to a very Hellenistic audience or ones well versed in Greek rhetoric, who could respond to Paul’s ethos and pathos evident throughout the letters. After 2 Corinthians begins with a thanksgiving and an exordium (an exordium is the beginning part aimed at making the audience open to what follows) in 1:3-7, Paul moves into the narratio in 1:8—2:16. The narratio is where the rhetor states the facts of the case that were at issue or the main questions under debate. According to Witherington,

“Paul…chooses to build up goodwill and compassion in the narratio by dealing with less crucial charges such as possible dishonesty about his travel plans, his sternness in the painful letter toward the one who had offended him, and his supposed lack of love and concern for the Corinthians. These are important issues and Paul will return to them later in the “argument” section of the discourse, but it is clear from 2:17 and what follows in 3:1—6:13 that the major issue is the legitimacy of Paul’s ministry. It is above all else that this is in question in Corinth and therefore also this letter.” (Emphasis mine)

Chapter 2 verse 17 is the propositio. In forensic rhetoric, the propositio is the statement to be proved true or false by the arguments that follow. Paul wrote, “For we are not like many, peddling the word of God, but as from sincerity, but as from God, we speak in Christ in the sight of God.” Here, Paul denies the charge of being a false ambassador of Christ and the most critical part of that charge, that he has been untrustworthy of the Corinthian’s money.

Again quoting Witherington,

“Paul’s basic rhetorical strategy seems to be that at the beginning of the probatio (3:1—6:13) [the probatio brings in arguments to support the debater’s case-JK] he will compare his ministry with that of Moses and on that basis develop arguments to show why he should be seen as a true minister of the gospel or ambassador of Christ and thus should be reconciled to and recognized by his Corinthian converts.”

Baird is right when he says,

“[The] central concern of 2 Corinthians … is the discussion of apostolic authority, and it is in this light that 2 Cor 3:1-3 must be viewed. When this is done, it will be evident that Paul’s [main] concern in this context is not with a covenant written on the hearts of his parishioners, but with his own experience of commission in that covenant’s ministry.” (“Letters of Recommendation,” pg. 172)

This all makes great sense, especially as we move into chapters 4 and 5 which is where the CBV starts to fall apart. In 4:7-9, Paul gives a catalog of trials that he has endured, consisting of eight present tense middle or passive voice participles in four contrasting pairs linked by all’ ouk (“but not”). Again quoting Witherington,

“It is in set pieces like this that we see Paul’s rhetorical skills most clearly. For example, the second pair “perplexed but not totally perplexed” contains a pun of both sound and content. One could be distressed without being totally desperate. He has been hard pressed but not at his wit’s end; at a loss but no completely lost; persecuted, abandoned, and knocked down, but not knocked out. Taken as a whole, this catalog suggests that Paul’s vessel has plenty of cracks but is still intact, which suggests miraculous preservation.”

Then in the very next verse (4:10), William Bell and other CBV advocates claim that “always carrying about in the body the dying of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body” refers to the corporate body, not the bodies of Paul or the other apostles. Which corporate body that is, the Church or dead Israel, he has struggled to state clearly as seen in at least two different Preterist Pilgrim Weekend discussions (2008 and 2014) on the topic.

Notice the surrounding context:

2 Corinthians 4:7-12 NASB “But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, so that the surpassing greatness of the power will be of God and not from ourselves; (8) we are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not despairing; (9) persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed; (10) always carrying about in the body the dying of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body. (11) For we who live are constantly being delivered over to death for Jesus’ sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh. (12) So death works in us, but life in you.”

CBV adherents claim that Paul and the other apostles were in the dying corporate body of Israel, while the Corinthians (composed of both Jews and Greeks) were in the living body of Christ. This argument is made on two main points: that chapter 3 introduces a covenant transition theme, and that Paul used the singular form of “body.”

The covenant transition aspect of Ch. 3 was noted above, and is not denied. However, covenant transition does not demand a corporate understanding of “body,” particularly when seen within the entire construct of Paul’s rhetorical argument. And, we have already seen how the construct “our body” (plural possessive pronoun with a singular noun) does not demand in Greek that a singular body is in view.

Look at chapter 4 verse 10, and ask yourself: if the corporate body view is correct, then how many different corporate bodies are in this text? (Go ahead and pause and reread that verse.)

Notice how both the dying of Jesus and the life of Jesus was on display in the “body” (singular noun with a plural pronoun) of the apostles. Is this the individual bodies of the apostles, or the corporate body to which they belonged?

Bell argues the latter (he must, for if he doesn’t then he gives up the farm). But, to which corporate body did the apostles belong? Did they belong to two corporate bodies at the same time, or to just one corporate body that was both dying and rising at the same time? Was the dying of Jesus in the “body of Israel” but the life of Jesus in the “body of the church”? Or are they both in the “body of Israel?” They can’t be both be in the “body of the church” since that creates a problem for what body the Corinthians are in (“death works in us [apostles] but life works in you [Corinthians]”).

The fact that this gets convoluted, and CBV adherents have had a tough time making sense of this passage, indicates to me that violence is being done to the text. This is a clear case of trying to force a square peg into a round hole because of a preconceived notion that every use of “body” must be corporate.

When one approaches the text without preconceived notions or trying to force in a view that admittedly is difficult, it becomes easy to see that Paul’s point was that the life of martyrdom (which Christ exhibited in his life) was on display in the apostles (and especially in Paul’s!), but the resurrected life of Christ was also at work in their lives so that this life could also be at work in the Corinthians. Paul was personally and physically persecuted, and was carrying around in his own body the marks of such persecution.

In refutation of an individual body view of this text, CBV adherents says there cannot be an actual “outer man” and “inner man” for each individual in 4:16, because this is Platonism and would be far from the Hebraic view of man. I’ll have more to say about this later, but for now will make a brief comment.

CBV advocates are correct that many modern and post-modern commentators do indeed take the position that this is talking about the human body (the “outer”) in contrast to the soul (the “inner”). But the text, while sounding Platonic, is actually in my studied opinion closer to Stoicism than it is Platonism or Neo-Platonism.

First, the most up to date scholarship shows that Platonism was not in vogue in the first century (see A.A. Long, “Hellenistic Philosophy”; M.V. Lee, “Paul, the Stoics, and the Body of Christ”; and Rasimus, Engberg-Pederson, and Dunderberg, “Stoicism in Early Christianity”). Second, while Platonists did see the body as a shell with a trapped soul inside (they strongly contrasted the material with the immaterial), the Stoics did not see the body as a shell or that the soul was trapped inside it. Stoicism, according to the scholars above, was the dominant Greek worldview of the first century. For Stoics, “body” represented whole of the person, unified by one common thing: pneuma (Greek for “spirit”). They believed that there was a visible body on earth made of the elements and pneuma, and that after someone died all that remained was their pneuma (spirit). In this understanding, most in Paul’s Corinthian audience would have quickly seen this as meaning that the biological bodies of the apostles were under extreme duress, but their pneuma (spirit) was being renewed by the Holy Spirit day by day (4:13-14). This renewal of their spirit is in fact a precursor for Paul’s “new creation” in 5:17.

Notice that the “afflictions” (4:17) which Paul and the other evangelists were receiving were not merely some kind of “covenantal afflictions” – they certainly were afflicted because of their covenant status with Christ – but these were real afflictions received on the human body (“manifested in our mortal flesh”). See Acts 14:9f and 16:22f for two examples of afflictions Paul received prior to writing 1 and 2 Corinthians.

It is on the heels of this section on the physical abuses of Paul’s body that Chapter 5 presents a solution to the problem.

This chapter is argued quite diligently by CBV advocates that this is only a covenant status change for the body of Israel into the body of Christ. Word comparisons of “tent,” “building,” “house,” “not made with hands,” “naked,” “clothing,” “dwelling,” are made to show how the words applied to both the old covenant nation of Israel and their tabernacle/temple arrangement and to the new covenant church. Clearly those words were used that way (e.g., Eph. 2:14-22; 1 Peter 2:5). That those words are used elsewhere pertaining to the new covenant body of Christ is not denied. But, does that usage require its meaning here? I argue that it does not.

First, let’s look at 2 Corinthians 5:1-4 in Young’s Literal Translation:

“For we have known that if our earthly house of the tabernacle may be thrown down, a building from God we have, an house not made with hands–age-during–in the heavens, (2) for also in this we groan, with our dwelling that is from heaven earnestly desiring to clothe ourselves, (3) if so be that, having clothed ourselves, we shall not be found naked, (4) for we also who are in the tabernacle do groan, being burdened, seeing we wish not to unclothe ourselves, but to clothe ourselves, that the mortal may be swallowed up of the life.”

Notice how vs 1 starts: “For.” That’s a conjunction that bridges the thought from the previous verses, which was regarding the physical persecutions and death the apostles and evangelists were undergoing.

Next, let’s look at 2 Peter 1:13-14 again in Young’s Literal:

“and I think right, so long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up in reminding you, (14) having known that soon is the laying aside of my tabernacle, even as also our Lord Jesus Christ did shew to me,”

Peter used the same noun, skenoo, in the specific context of his impending death as did Paul in referencing the earthly house that he and the other apostles undergoing afflictions would put off. In 2 Peter the actual Greek word is skenomati, a dative singular noun used because of the reference to time (“soon”), and in 2 Cor. 5 it is skenous, a genitive singular noun used to emphasize something everyone in his audience possesses.

Let’s continue with 2 Corinthians.

2 Corinthians 5:6-10 NASB (6) “Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord– (7) for we walk by faith, not by sight– (8) we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord. (9) Therefore we also have as our ambition, whether at home or absent, to be pleasing to Him. (10) For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.”

Notice in 5:10 that each person (“each one,” “he”) is recompensed for what each has done “in the body.” This is referring to each person’s body. This individual aspect to judgment and recompense for what is done in the body is important to Paul’s point about how the apostles were being persecuted for the sakes of both Christ and the Corinthians. And as we already noticed, judgment and recompense for each individual was part of Paul’s admonition in 1 Cor. 6:18 (“the sexually immoral man sins against his own body”).

But maybe the biggest problem in the CBV interpretation of this text is the logical conundrum created if the “body” is the corporate body of Israel/Moses. Paul preached that being in Christ, one had died to the Law or the old “body.”

Romans 7:4-6 (ESV) “Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. (5) For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. (6) But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.”

It is clear from this text that it would be impossible for Paul to be “at home” in the body of Moses since he had already died to it.

Some CBV advocates might argue that as an apostle, as one still ministering to Israel (e.g. 1 Cor. 9:20), Paul was still tied to “the body of Moses,” because the old covenant had not fully disappeared (Heb. 8:13) and was still in transition (2 Cor. 3:18). Those things would be true, but they do not prove that the “body” and the “home” Paul had in mind was the old covenant body of Moses. Paul already was released from the old covenant by the power of Christ’s resurrection, as we just saw here in Rom. 7 and also in Phil. 3:8-10.

Earlier in 2 Cor. 5, Paul mentioned the words “torn down,” “groan,” “longing.” The context, as we’ve already seen, is on the physical abuses and persecution he was undergoing. It makes much more logical sense to see Paul longing to be done with his physical sufferings and to be with Christ, than it does to see Paul groaning to be out of the old covenant, since that fate was already sealed in Paul’s past. We also should connect Paul’s “groaning” here with Romans 8 –

Romans 8:18 NASB “For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is [about] to be revealed to us.”

Romans 8:23 NASB “And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.”

Paul’s Greek audience in Corinth would immediately understand his phrases “not being found naked,” and “not be unclothed but further clothed” to mean that he would rather live up to the time of the resurrection instead of being found in the intermediate state that one would be in Hades if he died before it; yet he also longs to be done with these persecutions immediately and be resting with the Lord.

That being true, Paul sums up by saying that whichever way it works out, he will stay courageous, knowing that he and everyone else must appear before the judgment seat of Christ. This point about the judgment seat is important, because elsewhere (Dan. 7:9-10, Rev. 20:11-12) we see that this judgment takes place in heaven (not on earth). This Second Temple Apocalyptic theme of a heavenly judgment makes the view that this is merely (only) about the legal transition of covenants extremely tenuous.

“The Hope of Israel”

Another CBV argument is that Paul preached the hope of Israel, which was “nothing other than the Law and the Prophets” (Acts 23:6; 24:14-15; 26:6-8, 22-23). This is absolutely true. But does this mean that the only resurrection predicted in the Law and the Prophets was a corporate resurrection? Was this the only hope of Israel? No, this was not the only resurrection in the Law and Prophets, and it was not the only hope of Israel.

In the Acts passages listed above, “the dead ones” that Paul mentioned were actual already dead people in Hades. In 23:6, he cries out “I am on trial for the hope and resurrection of the dead!” as a tactic in his defense to set the Sadducees against the Pharisees. To what degree Paul agreed with the Pharisees about the resurrection is not said, only that he believed and hoped there would be one. (The identity of “the dead” as dead people in Hades rather than spiritual dead Israelites under the Old Covenant will be proved later; for now it is sufficient to show that the understanding of the Pharisees that Paul appealed to was to biologically dead people, whether Paul agreed with them or not.)

The “resurrection of the righteous and the wicked” in Acts 24:15 echoes back to Daniel 12:2, where resurrection was not described as a “corporate body” but as “many” dead people including the individual Daniel himself. Daniel hoped that he himself would be raised unto his inheritance at the end of the age (Dan. 12:13).

When Jesus discussed the resurrection of the dead with the Pharisees in Matt. 22:23-33, he said: “And as for the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was said to you by God: (32) ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not God of the dead, but of the living.” (ESV) Jesus individually mentioned these three dead OT saints as ones who would participate in “the resurrection of the dead.”

Martha clearly had a hope in an individual resurrection of the dead on the “last day,” and Jesus himself confirmed it without correction:

John 11:23-26 (ESV) “Jesus said to her, ‘Your brother will rise again.’ (24) Martha said to him, ‘I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.’ (25) Jesus said to her, ‘I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, (26) and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?’”

Notice the singular pronoun, “he” in the phrase “though he die,” referring to both Lazarus and also any other individual from then until the end-of-the-age-Resurrection who would believe in Jesus but biologically die before the resurrection occurred. Indeed, this is a critically important passage for supporting the grass-roots importance of individual resurrection for new covenant theology: even Jesus weeps over the individual! Though most all Jews were desirous of the reestablishment of the nation of Israel under the Messiah, the deepest concern of Jewish believers was not “will all Israel be raised,” but “will he/she/I be raised.” (For more on the Hope of Israel, please see my lecture “Exploring the Hope of Israel” from the 2014 Preterist Pilgrim Weekend conference, available from Don Preston.)

One of the problems with the CBV is that, whether intended or not, it sees the restoration of Israel into a new covenant people as an end unto itself. Often times this results in some believing that redemption in this life alone is the full expression of the prophets, with nothing specific about the afterlife of anyone other than a couple of inferences here and there. We are supposed to derive the “implications” of an afterlife from this covenant standing, but no one can say to any degree what that is. This is surprising, given how in the first century, the vast majority of all Jewish and Greek writings were fixated on what would become of life after death. For those in the CBV who disagree, I would ask them to list which passages discuss the afterlife and whether or not they see resurrection as anything beyond a corporate issue, specifically pertaining to individuals in Sheol/Hades. I certainly want to be fair, and not paint everyone under a broad stroke.

In contrast, a focus on the individual person can be seen as the core of Jesus’ teaching, from the Sermon on the Mountain where he espouses individual responsibility, to apostolic descriptions of living as individual priests, to being raised as individuals like Daniel, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were. God fulfilled his promise of restoration to Israel, but that restoration transcended the corporate and ultimately pointed to the individual. In fact, one might argue that the story of the once-for-all corporate salvation of Israel pointed to individual salvation of each person coming into the kingdom for ages without end. Without including the individual body component to the covenantal transition, we do disservice to the power of God to incorporate these two elements together (the promise to resurrect Israel as a nation and to resurrect biologically dead individuals from Sheol).

Defining “the dead”

With this assessment, we come back to 1 Corinthians 15 and ask the question, who were “the dead (ones)?” Some Corinthians were saying “there is no resurrection of the dead” (15:12), so clearly we need to see what or who “the dead” were in order to draw a conclusion. This is important to ask because CBV advocates argue that “the dead” are not specifically biologically dead people in the grave or in Hades (though it might include them), but rather are the spiritually (or covenantally) dead, specifically those in old covenant Israel who were dead via the Law of Moses.

The argument is advanced that there were “some” in Corinth who were denying participation in Christ to the Jews, that they had missed out on the blessings of Christ, therefore they would not be raised into the body of Christ (see Sam Frost’s audio “Lectures on 1 Corinthians 15” and his book “Exegetical Essays on the Resurrection”).

I wanted to do an exhaustive search to see how the phrase “the dead” was most commonly used to see if it will shed a light on 1 Cor. 15. First I looked at the Old Testament, and searched for all uses of “the dead.” Excluding references to animals, I found 39 uses. They mostly were all references to either corpses after a battle or in a grave, or departed spirits in Sheol. A few did not specifically say spirits but simply referred to people who had died. All the uses I cite use the Hebrew word muth which is typical Hebrew word for die/death/the dead. It is the root word found in Genesis 2 and 3 pertaining to Adam’s sin. Here are some examples (I will not list all):

Numbers 16:48 ESV And he stood between the dead and the living, and the plague was stopped.

Deuteronomy 18:11 ESV or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead,

Judges 16:30 ESV And Samson said, “Let me die with the Philistines.” Then he bowed with all his strength, and the house fell upon the lords and upon all the people who were in it. So the dead whom he killed at his death were more than those whom he had killed during his life.

2 Samuel 14:2 ESV And Joab sent to Tekoa and brought from there a wise woman and said to her, “Pretend to be a mourner and put on mourning garments. Do not anoint yourself with oil, but behave like a woman who has been mourning many days for the dead.

Psalms 88:5 ESV like one set loose among the dead, like the slain that lie in the grave, like those whom you remember no more, for they are cut off from your hand.

Psalms 88:10 ESV Do you work wonders for the dead? Do the departed rise up to praise you? Selah.

Psalms 115:17 ESV The dead do not praise the LORD, nor do any who go down into silence.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 ESV For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten.

Isaiah 8:19 ESV And when they say to you, “Inquire of the mediums and the necromancers who chirp and mutter,” should not a people inquire of their God? Should they inquire of the dead on behalf of the living?

Isaiah 14:9 ESV Sheol beneath is stirred up to meet you when you come; it rouses the shades [Heb. rephaim] to greet you, all who were leaders of the earth; it raises from their thrones all who were kings of the nations. [“the shades” is not the Hebrew word muth but it is related as the next verse shows]

Isaiah 26:14 ESV They are [the] dead, they will not live; they are shades, they will not arise; to that end you have visited them with destruction and wiped out all remembrance of them.

Ezekiel 24:17 ESV Sigh, but not aloud; make no mourning for the dead. Bind on your turban, and put your shoes on your feet; do not cover your lips, nor eat the bread of men.”

As you can see, in not one instance is “covenantal death” the meaning. These texts are all specific to dead people as spirits or corpses. If anyone thinks I have omitted passages that do demonstrate that the Hebrew word “the dead” are biologically alive but covenantally dead people, I welcome the input (again, recall my admission for a covenant death for Ephraim/northern Israel in Hosea, though they aren’t called “the dead”).

Turning to the New Testament, I wanted to narrow the search to the specific phrase “from the dead,” with a focus on resurrection or being raised. This phrase is found 53 times in 52 verses. Here are all 53 examples:

Matthew 14:2 NASB and said to his servants, “This is John the Baptist; he has risen from the dead, and that is why miraculous powers are at work in him.”

Matthew 17:9 NASB As they were coming down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, “Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man has risen from the dead.”

Matthew 27:64 NASB “Therefore, give orders for the grave to be made secure until the third day, otherwise His disciples may come and steal Him away and say to the people, ‘He has risen from the dead,’ and the last deception will be worse than the first.”

Matthew 28:7 NASB “Go quickly and tell His disciples that He has risen from the dead; and behold, He is going ahead of you into Galilee, there you will see Him; behold, I have told you.”

Mark 6:14 NASB And King Herod heard of it, for His name had become well known; and people were saying, “John the Baptist has risen from the dead, and that is why these miraculous powers are at work in Him.”

Mark 9:9-10 ESV And as they were coming down the mountain, he charged them to tell no one what they had seen, until the Son of Man had risen from the dead. (10) They seized upon that statement, discussing with one another what rising from the dead meant.

Mark 12:25 NASB “For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.

Luke 9:7 NASB Now Herod the tetrarch heard of all that was happening; and he was greatly perplexed, because it was said by some that John had risen from the dead,

Luke 16:30 NASB “But he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!’

Luke 16:31 NASB “But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.'”

Luke 20:35 NASB but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage;

Luke 24:46 NASB and He said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day,

John 2:22 NASB So when He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had spoken.

John 12:1 NASB Jesus, therefore, six days before the Passover, came to Bethany where Lazarus was, whom Jesus had raised from the dead.

John 12:9 NASB The large crowd of the Jews then learned that He was there; and they came, not for Jesus’ sake only, but that they might also see Lazarus, whom He raised from the dead.

John 12:17 NASB So the people, who were with Him when He called Lazarus out of the tomb and raised him from the dead, continued to testify about Him.

John 20:9 NASB For as yet they did not understand the Scripture, that He must rise again from the dead.

John 21:14 NASB This is now the third time that Jesus was manifested to the disciples, after He was raised from the dead.

Acts 3:15 NASB but put to death the Prince of life, the one whom God raised from the dead, a fact to which we are witnesses.

Acts 4:2 NASB being greatly disturbed because they were teaching the people and proclaiming in Jesus the resurrection from the dead.

Acts 4:10 NASB let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead–by this name this man stands here before you in good health.

Acts 10:41 NASB not to all the people, but to witnesses who were chosen beforehand by God, that is, to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead.

Acts 13:30-31 NASB “But God raised Him from the dead; (31) and for many days He appeared to those who came up with Him from Galilee to Jerusalem, the very ones who are now His witnesses to the people.

Acts 13:34 NASB “As for the fact that He raised Him up from the dead, no longer to return to decay, He has spoken in this way: ‘I WILL GIVE YOU THE HOLY and SURE blessings OF DAVID.’

Acts 17:3 NASB explaining and giving evidence that the Christ had to suffer and rise again from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus whom I am proclaiming to you is the Christ.”

Acts 17:31 NASB because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead.

Acts 26:23 ESV that the Christ must suffer and that, by being the first to rise from the dead, he would proclaim light both to our people and to the Gentiles.” [I used the ESV here because the NASB does a terrible job translating this verse]

Romans 1:4 NASB who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord,

Romans 4:24 NASB but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead,

Romans 6:4 NASB Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

Romans 6:9 NASB knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him.

Romans 6:13 NASB and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.

Romans 7:4 NASB Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.

Romans 8:11 NASB But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Romans 10:7 NASB or ‘WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).”

Romans 10:9 NASB that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

Romans 11:15 NASB For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?

1 Corinthians 15:12 NASB Now if Christ is preached, that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?

1 Corinthians 15:20 NASB But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.

Galatians 1:1 NASB Paul, an apostle (not sent from men nor through the agency of man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised Him from the dead),

Ephesians 1:20 NASB which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,

Ephesians 5:14 NASB For this reason it says, “Awake, sleeper, And arise from the dead, And Christ will shine on you.”

Philippians 3:10-11 NASB that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; (11) in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.

Colossians 1:18 NASB He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.

Colossians 2:12 NASB having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

1 Thessalonians 1:10 NASB and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come.

2 Timothy 2:8 NASB Remember Jesus Christ, risen from the dead, descendant of David, according to my gospel,

Hebrews 11:17-19 NASB By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son; (18) it was he to whom it was said, “IN ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS SHALL BE CALLED.” (19) He considered that God is able to raise people even from the dead, from which he also received him back as a type.

Hebrews 13:20 NASB Now the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep through the blood of the eternal covenant, even Jesus our Lord,

1 Peter 1:3 NASB Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

1 Peter 1:21 NASB who through Him are believers in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

I know that was a lot of reading, but it was necessary to demonstrate the obvious truth that “the dead” were in every situation but three a reference to previously biologically dead people, most often being Jesus. Eph. 5:11 is clearly referring to spiritual death or sin death. In the other two (Rom. 6:14, Rom. 11:15), they could be seen as arguing that the Romans should be acting holy in regards to personal sinning as though they had been resurrected either out from sin-death, or out from the afterlife realm of the dead, or both.

Someone might respond that Jesus’ death and resurrection was not merely biological but was of great spiritual and covenantal importance. Indeed it was! Such meaning can be found in some of the passages above like Colossians 1:18 and 1 Peter 1:3. Does this mean that “raised Him from the dead” did not mean that Jesus was raised personally, individually from Hades and the grave? Absolutely not. In fact, in the vast majority of these references, they were about people witnessing Jesus in Jerusalem after his resurrection. For example, if you look at Matt. 27:64, where the chief priests and scribes use the phrase “he has risen from the dead,” they clearly weren’t worried about the disciples claiming that he overcame sin-death, but were singularly worried about the claim that he came back from biological death.

The point is, one cannot claim that the most common use of “the dead” in either the OT or NT was only or primarily referring to spiritual death. The overwhelming use pertains to the biologically dead, to ones in (or in the case of Jesus, formerly in) Hades.

In Adam or in Christ?

You can’t have a discussion of “the dead” without looking at the “death” of Adam. A very important part of the argument for a corporate body view of “the dead” in 1 Cor. 15 is the relationship with Adam (15:21, 22, 45). Because Adam died “the day he ate,” the very day his “eyes were opened,” it must have been a spiritual (covenantal) death not a biological death, since he went on to live for hundreds of years more. Therefore, the death being overcome in 1 Cor. 15 cannot be biological death but must be “covenantal death,” i.e. the death of Adam, according to the CBV.

Of course, I agree that biological death was not the death Adam incurred the day he ate. I also agree that it was not a consequence of Adam’s sin, nor is it what is being “ended” in 1 Cor. 15. I believe that biological death existed before the time of Adam, and this death was the known foundation upon which the idea of a covenantal separation or death would have been understood.

Clearly there are references in the NT to the “spiritually dead” who were still biologically alive (e.g., John 5:24f). That said, many CBV advocates fail to see the other side of the coin in Adam’s death, which is detention in some sort of realm of the dead (“Sheol” or “Hades”) as a consequence of the staining of sin against a holy God. It is this other part of the story that we see throughout the rest of the bible. It is a grave concern (no pun intended) for many of God’s people. Had Adam not sinned, it is reasonable to conclude (as most covenant eschatology and covenant creation preterists do) that Adam would have gone on to live in heaven after his biological death.

Notice some passages which reflect this concern about what happens after death:

Job 7:7-10 ESV “Remember that my life is a breath; my eye will never again see good. (8) The eye of him who sees me will behold me no more; while your eyes are on me, I shall be gone. (9) As the cloud fades and vanishes, so he who goes down to Sheol does not come up; (10) he returns no more to his house, nor does his place know him anymore.”

Job 14:7-14 ESV “For there is hope for a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that its shoots will not cease. (8) Though its root grow old in the earth, and its stump die in the soil, (9) yet at the scent of water it will bud and put out branches like a young plant. (10) But a man dies and is laid low; man breathes his last, and where is he? (11) As waters fail from a lake and a river wastes away and dries up, (12) so a man lies down and rises not again; till the heavens are no more he will not awake or be roused out of his sleep. (13) Oh that you would hide me in Sheol, that you would conceal me until your wrath be past, that you would appoint me a set time, and remember me! (14) If a man dies, shall he live again? All the days of my service I would wait, till my renewal should come.”

Psalms 22:29 ESV All the prosperous of the earth eat and worship; before him shall bow all who go down to the dust, even the one who could not keep himself alive.

Psalms 49:7-11, 14-15 ESV Truly no man can ransom another, or give to God the price of his life, (8) for the ransom of their life is costly and can never suffice, (9) that he should live on forever and never see the pit. (10) For he sees that even the wise die; the fool and the stupid alike must perish and leave their wealth to others. (11) Their graves are their homes forever, their dwelling places to all generations, though they called lands by their own names. (14) Like sheep they are appointed for Sheol; death shall be their shepherd, and the upright shall rule over them in the morning. Their form shall be consumed in Sheol, with no place to dwell. (15) But God will ransom my soul from the power of Sheol, for he will receive me. Selah.

The “death” that these people were afraid of was at the outset biological death, but what really concerned them was never returning from Sheol. Hope of this glimmers in Job and Psalms (and possibly to Abraham), but is not revealed until much later in the prophets and finally the Apostles:

Hebrews 2:14-18 ESV Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil, (15) and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong slavery. (16) For surely it is not angels that he helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham. (17) Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. (18) For because he himself has suffered when tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.

So while Adam’s death was a “fellowship” death that very day based on his sin, the consequence (and remedy) of that death is the story of the rest of Scripture. How would this be fixed? It would be fixed by God becoming like his brothers in every respect, sharing in flesh and blood, and overcoming death in all its aspects, both covenantal and biological. Why fear biological death? Because it was the moment when the ultimate price would be paid for sin – separation from God. As long as one was still alive, they had “coverings” allowing them to be in the limited presence of God. This is the other side of the “death” coin that the CBV often misses.

Now, the Resurrection of “the dead” in 1 Cor. 15

Sam Frost makes the argument (based on Max King) that the problem that Paul was dealing with in Romans (specifically 11:11-24) – that some Gentiles were claiming that Jews were cut off so that they could be grafted in – is the same problem in 1 Corinthians. Some Gentiles, Frost says, were of the “Paul party” while some Jews were of the “Peter party” (citing 1 Cor. 1:12). The argument is that some Gentiles in Corinth were denying total participation in (soteriological) resurrection life for the Jews, who were “dead” because they were under the Law (Old Covenant) which brought death. This therefore identifies “the dead” as not the biologically dead in the Hadean realm, but the covenantally dead under the Law.

I have two problems with this view. First, the Gentiles in Rome were not denying participation in Christ to all Jews (meaning, to those who were believers in Christ and in the church), but rather to all the remaining Jews who had not believed (those who were “broken off for their unbelief”). Second, and more importantly, there is no indication that Paul was addressing this concern at any point in 1 Corinthians. The “I am of Cephas, I am of Apollos,” et. al. remarks were not based on Jew/Gentile distinctions, but on personal preferences in styles of preaching and rhetoric for the different evangelists, as clearly seen in 1:17 to 4:21.

Frost then argues that Paul makes a “modus tollens” argument (I’ll explain “modus tollens” shortly) in 1 Cor. 15:12-19, which establishes that the resurrection deniers were not denying resurrection to themselves, to Jesus or to those asleep in Jesus, but only to some other group called “the dead” (i.e. the Jews, according to Frost). The modus tollens is an “if then” argument. “If p, then q; q is not, therefore p is not.” “If the dead are not raised, then Christ is not raised.” “If the dead are not raised, then you (Corinthians) are still in your sins.” Gordon Fee in his commentary on Corinthians raised this issue which Frost borrowed to make his argument. According to Frost, in order for this modus tollens argument to work on the Corinthians, they would have to reject the “q” or the consequences (they are still in their sins, Jesus hasn’t been raised, etc.), in order to change their belief on “p” (that the dead are not raised).

I agree that Paul used a modus tollens argument to demonstrate the absurdity (reductio ad absurdum) of the Corinthians belief that “the dead are not raised.” However, there is a problem with Frost’s leap of claiming Israel was the only group being denied resurrection. If we eliminate the groups of people to whom all the negative consequences towards resurrection apply (Christ, and those asleep in Christ), and accept that the Corinthian resurrection deniers were not denying Christ’s resurrection nor that of those asleep in Christ, then who does that leave? It leaves more than just the Jews. It would actually be for everyone who died before Christ. Resurrection was for all of the just and the unjust (John 5:28-29; Rev. 20:11-13), not just the Jews.

It is more logical to see that these Greeks in Corinth inconsistently believed that Christ was raised, while at the same time denied that anyone else would be raised. It makes more sense that the “some” who were denying the “resurrection of the dead” were the typical Greeks of the day who held that there is no resurrection of the dead. The dead either live forever in Hades as “shades,” or their “pneuma” (spirit) returns to the heavens (stars) since that is the material that the stars were made of. One of the common cosmological views of the day did allow for special heroes, kings and warriors to be resurrected, though this was a very rare occasion, so it would be possible for a Hellenistic Corinthian to believe that Jesus was raised but not anyone else. Corinth was only 40 miles from Athens, and we recall how the idea of the resurrection of Jesus was ridiculed in Athens in Acts 17:16-34. What was taught in Athens was also taught in Corinth, so it is much more plausible that we have Greeks in Corinth who were denying the general concept of resurrection from the dead for everyone. Paul employs at least two quotes from Greek philosophers (vs. 32-33), so it is not likely that the deniers were Jewish Sadducees since quoting Greek philosophers would hardly be effective. (For more information on common Greek views of the afterlife, see: “From Grave to Glory: Resurrection in the New Testament” by Murry J. Harris.)

Paul, in my mind, was talking to rookie Christians who became so by believing in the resurrected Christ. But, they didn’t realize the implications of their new belief. Though their former belief systems of Stoicism and Epicureanism didn’t believe in resurrection (and I think the first portion of Paul’s argument is more tightly focused on the former Epicureans), they had accepted the resurrection of Christ in order to become

Christians. What they hadn’t realized is that if they accepted this, then by implication they are accepting resurrection of everyone else as well.

So, in my opinion, Paul’s logic in the chapter unfolds like this:

  1. (v. 1-11) He reiterates the gospel that he used to save them (former Stoics and Epicureans), including Hebrew Scriptures as well as eye witness proof that Christ was in fact raised.
  2. (v. 12) He recognizes that some of them don’t believe in the resurrection of dead people.
  3. (v. 13-15) He points out that if Christ is in fact raised then so is everyone else.
  4. (v. 16-28) His logic loops around a few times to prove the universality of resurrection.
  5. (v. 29-34) He goes on to address specific problems that Epicureans would have had with their new religion.
  6. (v. 35-49) He then adopts and reimages some Stoic cosmological assumptions to explain the true nature of resurrection.
  7. (v. 50-58) He completes the task by showing how this is all the culmination of the expectation in the Hebrew scripture.

If there is one thing CBV advocates cannot do, it is explain why there is so much overlap between Epicurean and Stoic worldview in this chapter. If the trick to Paul is to figure out the hidden 1/2 of the phone conversation, then I don’t think you can figure out 1 Cor. 15 without engaging those groups. Clearly, in that part of the world, the majority of pagan converts would have come from those groups.

One last thing before moving on. Notice 1 Cor. 15:32, which is an Epicurean maxim (and is quoted in the

LXX version of Isa. 22:13):

(ESV) (32) What do I gain if, humanly speaking, I fought with beasts at Ephesus? If the dead are not raised, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.”

The death of “tomorrow” for Paul was not spiritual or covenantal death, it was clearly biological death. That was the context for Epicureans, and also was the context in Isaiah. This solidifies that “the dead” for Paul and the Corinthians were those who had died biologically and were in Hades, not the spiritually dead people of the old covenant.

A Solution to the Problem

It is important to understand what prompted Max King to develop the concept of a corporate body resurrection. First, from sources I have spoken with who were involved in the movement when it first began, there was much confusion on how to understand “resurrection” in the early days. Max King, being from the heritage I was in from birth (the Churches of Christ, in which I was a 4th generation minister), focused on the spiritual aspect of the kingdom and rebirth/regeneration/resurrection (e.g., Romans 6). I know all too well that it was common in our fellowship to focus on the spiritual kingdom since we were battling from our pulpits since at least the 1930’s against premillennialism.

If the resurrection of the dead happened in AD70, and graves still existed, there is a need to explain how an invisible (“spiritual”) resurrection took place that isn’t “physical.” The early pioneers wrestled with how to explain this from a preterist perspective. Max relied heavily on the book “The Body” by John A.T. Robinson; it is referenced throughout King’s massive “The Cross and the Parousia” (a work I have plunged into several times over the last 9 years).

Robinson’s “The Body” takes the basic approach that there were two different concepts of the body – a Greek one and a Jewish one. The Greek one according to Robinson (who quotes another) is that man was described as “an angel in a slot machine, a soul incarcerated into a frame of matter” (pg. 14). The Hebrew one was that man was “an animated body, not an incarcerated soul” (pg. 14). It was argued that the Greeks had a Platonic view of man, whereas the Hebrews had a holistic view of man connected to his community. Therefore Robinson presented only two real concrete ideas of a bodily resurrection for King to plug into a preterist view: either the body was the shell of human (the flesh), or it was a collective group of people (here, the “body of Christ).

The result was a view (current CBV) that every single eschatological instance of “the resurrection of the dead ones” in scripture has not to do with what is happening to dead people coming out of Hades at the great judgment in AD70, but only of the covenant transition away from the Law of Moses via the lens of spiritual regeneration and restoration of fellowship.

Scholars today (Engberg-Pederson, Long, M. Lee, Rasimus, Dunderberg, D. Martin, et. al) claim that Robinson’s depiction of Greek and Hebrew cosmologies incorrectly described those of the first century. Not only did Robinson’s view ignore the diversity within ancient Judaism, as well as that many Jews such as Philo of Alexandria held very Platonic concepts of the “body,” it also was based on questionable assumptions about Greco-Roman culture; mainly, that the Greek culture of Jesus and Paul shared our modern Cartesian dichotomies of body and soul, which we now know are false.

Platonism had waned before the first century began. Around the century before Christ and at its peak during the time of Christ, the Roman world accepted the basic worldview of Stoics (and to a lesser degree, the Epicureans and Skeptics). This doesn’t mean they practiced Stoicism or Epicureanism, but that how they came to understand the nature of man and the universe was couched in basic terms developed by these Greek thinkers. It was common “scientific” language on the street throughout the Empire. It would be as common to them as gravity or a superficial understanding of the Theory of Relativity is to us today. Just because everyone today knows what gravity is doesn’t mean everyone is a physicist. The same was true in the first century with Stoic and Epicurean cosmology.

In Stoicism, the word “pneuma” (spirit) was the most refined, pure material that held all things together, and in large enough quantities became a sort of life force. Humans had far more and better pneuma than rocks. God (or the gods) had a perfect quality of pneuma. This overlapped to a large extent with the Hebrew concept of spirit (“ruach”) being the breath of God, etc.

I propose a solution to the problem. Forcing a corporate body into all the uses of “body” in resurrection of the dead contexts clearly does not work. A body of flesh resurrection does not work for a variety of historical, archeological and theological reasons within a preterist schema. But a resurrection of a body made solely of pneuma does work on all levels theological, grammatical and historical.

When dealing with Greeks, Paul could draw on the Stoic system of physics to explain the Hebraic concept of pneuma as an animating force as well as a physical element of a person’s body. For example, notice how Jesus used pneuma in his discussion with Nicodemus:

John 3:8 ESV “The wind [Greek: pneuma] blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit [pneuma].”

Notice the same Greek word underlies the translators’ words “wind” and “Spirit.” Pneuma would have been sort of like the rarest, highest quality gas that represented the person’s body in the invisible realm. As a person became a Christian he was issued God’s pneuma. When God’s pneuma interacted with a given Christian’s pneuma it renovated it and became the source for a kind of “empowering datalink” if you will between not only God and man, but a Christian and another Christian.

The idea of being indwelt by Christ, Christ becoming a life giving spirit, and everyone in Christ being one body can be seen as quite literal due to their understanding of pneuma. Paul saw this new man as a superior creature to the simply flesh person (“natural man”) that represented all unbelievers. It also explains the horror of Christians having sex with a pagan temple prostitute.

As mentioned already, this understanding of pneuma would have been as intuitive to Paul’s audience in Corinth as the modern definition of gravity is to us today. Paul is simply saying that the body that is resurrected from Hades, after the flesh is put in the ground, is made of pneuma, which is a type of substance that is suitable for heaven. It was the real individual that went into the grave, but it was the pneuma of that person that was resurrected from Hades. The flesh rots away. (For more information on this, please watch or listen to my 2014 Preterist Pilgrim Weekend speech “Stoics and Gnostics” available from Don Preston at the Preterist Research Institute.)

Notice how easy to understand 1 Cor. 15 becomes with this background in mind:

1 Corinthians 15:35-50 ESV “But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body do they come?” (36) You foolish person! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. (37) And what you sow is not the body that is to be, but a bare kernel, perhaps of wheat or of some other grain. (38) But God gives it a body as he has chosen, and to each kind of seed its own body. (39) For not all flesh is the same, but there is one kind for humans, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish. (40) There are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is of one kind, and the glory of the earthly is of another. (41) There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory. (42) So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. (43) It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. (44) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual (pneumatikon) body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual (pneumatikon) body. (45) Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit (pneuma). (46) But it is not the spiritual (pneumatikon) that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual (pneumatikon). (47) The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven. (48) As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. (49) Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven. (50) I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.”

There is much more that could be said regarding 1 Cor. 15, particularly the meaning behind Paul’s use of the various terrestrial and celestial bodies in vss. 38-41, but we do not have the time to develop that now. One concept worth mentioning that I see behind the ultimate goal of the resurrection of the dead is the judgment of the gods (elohim) – Paul’s “rulers, principalities and spiritual powers” – and their dethroning from the Divine Council of YHWH over the nations, and their replacement by the saints on thrones in the heavens. That view is based on the direction modern scholarship is advancing on certain texts such as Deut. 4 and 32, Psalms 82 and 89, Daniel 12, John 10 and in Second Temple literature (e.g. 2 Baruch, 4 Ezra, Testament of Moses, 4 Maccabees, 1 Enoch, Philo, etc.). For a mind-blowing podcast which takes this approach, see http://www.nakedbiblepodcast.com/naked-bible-95-david-burnett-resurrection-and-the-death-of-the-gods/ (though from a partial-preterist position, it plugs perfectly into a full preterist viewpoint).

The guest speaker in the above podcast, David Burnett, has written a yet-to-be published paper (scheduled to be released later this year at the annual Society for Biblical Literature meeting) on this very subject. The abstract can be found here: http://www.dburnett.com/?p=2640.

What Now?

I see “resurrection from the dead” as a one-time event for the dead ones in Hades at AD70, and not an ongoing function post-AD70. Those saints are in heaven and are co-regents with Christ, ruling from thrones with him. Since Hades is no more, there is no longer a “resurrection out from among the dead ones” (the “dead ones” were in Hades/Sheol when that was written). But, since the “age to come” was described as one where those living in it have eternal life, and since Revelation describes those who die after the Judgment as “blessed” (Rev. 14:13), and since the church was to last “for all generations forever and ever,” I would argue that all those in Christ after AD70, who have Christ’s pneuma in themselves, already have resurrection life and are not resurrected out from sin-death or from Hades, but continue to live after death in their true pneumatic body given to them by the breath of God.

This view is not “futuristic” as some CBV advocates attribute to an “individual body view.” It is no more futuristic than the fact that the kingdom was consummated in AD70 but continues indefinitely with new people coming into it and being “raised unto eternal life” daily. If the existence of ongoing benefits for a one-time event means it’s futuristic, then the CBV would also be futuristic since they also believe in the on-going benefits of the cross and the kingdom as well.

August 27, 2016

Posted in Eschatology | Leave a comment

Why I Am Skeptical about the Corporate Body View of the Resurrection

By Charles Meek

The “Corporate Body View” of the Resurrection (CBV), as held by some preterists, teaches that resurrection refers primarily, if not exclusively, to recovery of relational death between man and God. This view understands resurrection to be purely collective, covenantal, and metaphorical—and thus, by extension, is only individual and bodily in a limited (or murky) sense. This view harkens back to the dry bones passage in Ezekiel 37ff in which God resurrects his people (Ezekiel 37:11-14) into a new covenant (Ezekiel 37:26-28). CBVers also call on such passages as 1 Corinthians 15:54-55 where Paul quotes Isaiah 25:8 and Hosea 13:14 as fulfillment of the Old Covenant doctrine of the resurrection of Israel.

The CBV view stands against the “Individual Body View” (IBV). The IBV view teaches that there is an element of spiritual “resurrection” in the sense of salvation of the living (Ephesians  2:1-7; Colossians 2:12-14). But there is also a resurrection of new glorified bodies of believers at death?to heaven, leaving the old physical body behind (1 Corinthians 15:35-49). CBV advocates may or may not acknowledge an individual aspect to resurrection. All preterists reject the idea that fleshly bodies will emerge from their physical graves, that is, the “Body out of Graves” view (BOG), which is held by many futurists.

The topic of resurrection is the most difficult of eschatology subjects, in part because the biblical writers sometimes use the same terminology in different contexts to mean different things. I could be wrong, as I often am. But I see the CBV, if taken as a stand-alone doctrine, as incomplete and potentially misleading. Here are some thoughts:

  1. The corporate sense of resurrection is part of the meaning of resurrection. But is it the only sense of it? To believe this, one has to essentially hold that every time the word “body” (Greek “soma”) is used in the New Testament (some 142 times), that it refers to a collective body, i.e. the church. This is highly improbable. Only a relatively few times can soma be interpreted, indisputably, as the collective. I fear that CBV-only advocates have forced a single meaning into this word to reach a desired conclusion.
  2. CBVers rally around the language of the New Testament that “body” is usually singular, implying one collective “body of Christ.” But in language, it is not unusual to use body (singular) to mean bodies (plural). An example is: “Using too much of that substance will make the body ill.” Obviously “body” here is not limited to one unit or person. So, the application in a passage like 1 Corinthians 15:35 “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body do THEY come?” does not limit its understanding to a collective body (of Christ). Rather, in context of Jesus’ own resurrection, Paul is clearly speaking about the nature of the afterlife bodies of individual believers.
  3. Is the “hope of Israel” limited to some sort of metaphoric collective positioning? I think you have to ignore dozens of passages in the New Testament to accept that conclusion. There are too many passages about the afterlife and heaven as a place of rest, hope, etc. for individual persons. And further, despite objections from CBVers, I think that the individual nature of the afterlife is how it would have been understood by the original hearers. Consider: Martha in John 11:17-27; John the Baptist’s messengers in Luke 7:22; the disciples in John 3:16 and14:2-3; the rich young ruler in Mark 10:17. (Re-read these passages to see if you agree.)
  4. The CBV-only view, IMHO, misses the fact that the Bible discusses both spiritual AND bodily death, therefore implying both types of resurrection. I am persuaded that the first type of resurrection was a “resurrection” of the LIVING in a soteriological (salvation) sense?”dead in your sins and made alive in Christ.” Consider these passages: John 5:24-25; 11:25; Romans 6:1-14, 23; 8:6-11; Ephesians 2:1-7; Colossians 2:12-14; 3:1-4; 1 John 3:14. The second type of resurrection was a resurrection of the physically DEAD in an eschatological/bodily sense (“immortal glorified body”). I think these passages are about bodily resurrection (and judgment): Daniel 12:2-3; Matthew 13:36-43; 16:27-28; 25:30-46; John 5:28-29, 6:39-40; Acts 24:14 (mello); 1 Corinthians 15:35-50; 2 Timothy 4:1 (mello); 1 Peter 4:5, 17; Revelation 20:11-15. To think that the resurrection of the living and the resurrection of the dead are the same thing defies logic.
  5. This CBV-only doctrine is very new to the church. It stems, apparently, from one guy–Max King (1930-2023), who developed it, apparently, from the very liberal theologian John A. T. Robinson, who even doubted the bodily resurrection of Christ. It is reasonable to be suspicious of the origin of all this. I think there is a whole lot of group-think among preterists, and it mostly emanates from King, who we understand adopted universalism. Are preterists guilty of the very thing that they accuse futurists of—rallying around ideas from prominent theologians?
  6. The CBV-only view has led to unfortunate inferences of “hyper preterism” such as (a) universalism, (b) the notion that we are in heaven now (on earth), (c) that the afterlife holds nothing better for believers, or (d) even that sin no longer exists since AD 70. These conclusions are abominable errors. The CBV-only view has been the archway for many poor souls right out of Christianity.
  7. CBV-only advocates (like some futurists) have failed to grasp that the idiom “heaven and earth” (sometimes used as a Hebraic expression about covenants) is not the same thing as heaven itself. Even in English, we use the terms “heaven,” “heavens,” and “heaven and earth” in several different ways. In every language, some words have many different meanings. This is just basic hermeneutics.
  8. The CBV folks emphasize that you cannot understand the NT on resurrection unless you understand the OT. Well, I do not see how anybody could miss that such Old Testament passages as Isaiah 26:19; Job 19:26, and Daniel 12:2 are about individual persons to life after physical death.
  9. I don’t see how you can miss that 1 Corinthians 15:35-50 is Paul’s attempt to explain the nature of the afterlife for believers. His discussions about the seed analogy seem as obvious to me as it certainly has been to believers throughout Christian history. In 1 Corinthians 15:12-20, Paul sets this earthly life over and against the resurrection life in heaven in spiritual, imperishable bodies, confirming his teaching of our personal life after bodily death?as Christians have always understood..
  10. It is evident enough from Scripture that Jesus has a body in heaven (Colossians 2:9; Philippians 3:21; 1 Timothy 3:16; Hebrews 1:3; 4:14; 10:12). There is no indication in these passages, or Acts 1:9-11, that Jesus’ body disintegrated as CBVers propose. It was changed (or glorified), but not annihilated. Jesus’ eternal body sets the pattern for us (Philippians 3:21). We will have a body in heaven. But it will be an immortal body—a new body suitable for our eternal habitation. Paul used the terms “glorified,” “immortal,” “spiritual,” and “imperishable” explain the nature of our heavenly bodies (1 Corinthians 15:35-50, 52b, 53). Jesus said that we will be like angels in heaven (Matthew 22:30; cf. Matthew 17:2). These terms add to our understanding that our eternal bodies will have physicality—corporeal and personal in some sense, like those of Moses and Elijah at the Transfiguration.
  11. I fear that CBVers have lost sight of the gospel. Yes, Paul said in Acts that he taught nothing but the “hope of Israel.” But he does not limit this hope to a collective. The New Testament declares that all of God’s covenant promises, thus the hope of Israel, were fulfilled in Jesus (Luke 1:54-55, 69-75; 2 Corinthians 1:20). This is the heart of the New Testament. Salvation comes through the faith of the individual, not from a collective. “Whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life” (John 3:16) is not corporate, but individual.
  12. Are CBVers confusing Old Testament promises with New Testament realities? In Ezekiel 37 the nation (corporate body) of Israel was to be restored to its homeland after the exile. That was a shadow of New Testament resurrection. But Jesus personalized all of theology. Numerous passages in the New Testament explain that one’s personal salvation is by grace through a living faith in Jesus Christ alone. It should be evident that the passages on salvation are immensely personal in nature—not about corporate salvation. Likewise, we face judgment as individuals, not as a collective. The home of believers is heaven, not a piece of dirt.
  13. If you ask a CBVer what they believe about the afterlife and where they think they go when they die, you never get the answer “heaven.” Rather, you will get an answer something like “I continue to live in the house of God” or “We will reside in the presence of our Creator.” But if challenged on such answer by “Do you mean as an individual or in the collective?” you likely will get silence as an answer.

So, in summary, there appear to be multiple compounding errors from the CBV camp:

  1. The corporate sense of resurrection confuses soteriology with eschatology. We are not saved by corporate identity in any sense (a similar error made by dispensationalists who see salvation of Jews as emanating from simply being Jewish), but by grace through our personal, living, penitent, trusting faith in Jesus.
  2. Jesus personalized everything. CBV national “resurrection” was fulfilled to teach a typological lesson about individual resurrection.
  3. The CBV concept has confused the covenantal concept of “new heaven and new earth” with the realities of the physical earth itself and of heaven itself. This has led to very unfortunate inferences, which are leading people away from fundamental Christianity. In particular, some CBV advocates actually teach, or imply, that heaven is on earth and that there is nothing better to be expected in the afterlife. Further, it has led some to the inference that God did not create the physical universe per Genesis. Instead, God just popped up on the scene or intervened in an already existing universe to manipulate people by covenants and judgments. This diminishes God. One CBV advocate described God as a being that “moves in and out of deism.” This is an incredible distortion of Christianity.

Conclusion: There is much disagreement, wrangling, and confusion among Christians about many doctrines. This is certainly true among preterists too. While some futurists (especially dispensationalists) have interpreted the Bible in overly literal terms, some preterists seem to find metaphors under every rock. Both approaches create more problems than they solve. Preterism will never gain traction among mainstream Christians unless we can correctly define our views in line with classical Christianity.

*******

See also:
Corporate Body View and Covenant Eschatology
Resurrection to Heaven
The General Resurrection of the Dead

Posted in Collective Body View, Eschatology | Leave a comment

Did Christ Die Spiritually?

by Dan Norcini

The Preterist movement, or “Realized eschatology”, has been a breath of fresh air within the modern church, as it has laid bare the false assumptions, particularly of the most prominent and widely accepted eschatological system known as Premillennial Dispensationalism.

That being said, a significant number of teachers within the Preterist system have sadly veered far off course and run the risk of discrediting the entire viewpoint due to serious errors that they are propagating. Some of these errors are most disconcerting as they have moved outside of the historical viewpoint of the church for the past two millennia.

This brief essay deals with their claim that the Lord Jesus “died spiritually” on the cross. Their claim is that the physical death of Jesus was not what was most important but rather it was His “spiritual death” that was efficacious. They state that since men who believe in Christ still die physically, then Christ’s physical death could not have been a substitutionary one but rather was only a means to his experiencing “spiritual death”.

To further substantiate this interpretation, they have also come up with another term analogous to the “spiritual death”, which they call, “separation death”.

I should note here that neither of these two terms is expressly used in the entirety of Scripture. We do see the apostle Paul using the term, “death” and “dead” quite regularly in his letters to various churches, but nowhere does he ever use the terms, “separation death” or “spiritual death”.

It is this writer’s opinion that some of these well-meaning men, have not seriously thought through the implications of this view.

I will grant this before we delve into the Scriptures further – those advocating the use of these two terms do attempt to define them using other portions of Scripture. That I do not have a problem with on the surface. The issue I have is that their attempt to define both terms has led them into error.

First of all, let’s go back to their view of what happened to Adam in the Garden. They claim that Adam died “spiritually” on the day that he sinned or as they further explain, he suffered “separation death”. In other words, Adam became separated from God on the day he sinned in the Garden of Eden. But is this statement true? In my opinion, no, it is not.

The Bible nowhere states that Adam was separated from God. As a matter of fact, if mankind was ever completely separated from God, it would cease to exist.

“…in whose hand is the life of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.” (Job 12:10)

10 Therefore, listen to me, you men of understanding.
Far be it from God to do wickedness,
And from the Almighty to do wrong.
11 “For He pays a man according to his work,
And makes him find it according to his way.
12 “Surely, God will not act wickedly,
And the Almighty will not pervert justice.
13 “Who gave Him authority over the earth?
And who has laid on Him the whole world?
14 “If He should determine to do so,
If He should gather to Himself His spirit and His breath,
15 All flesh would perish together,
And man would return to dust.” (Job 34: 10-15)

And again,

7 “Where can I go from Your Spirit?
Or where can I flee from Your presence?
8 If I ascend to heaven, You are there;
If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, You are there.
9 If I take the wings of the dawn,
If I dwell in the remotest part of the sea,
10 Even there Your hand will lead me,
And Your right hand will lay hold of me.” (Psalm 139: 7-10)

Man cannot ever be completely separated from God. Yet, the Scriptures do speak as follows:

“But your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, and your sins have hidden His face from you so that He does not hear”. (Isaiah 59:2)

So here in Scripture we have clearly stated that sin (iniquity) separates man from God. It is further amplified, as is common in Hebrew, that sin results in a hiding of God’s face from the sinner.

When God is said to “hide His face” from someone, it means that they are separated from His gracious presence not utterly from His person. If the latter were true, the man would be dead since God is a life-giving Spirit, without Whom, nothing would exist, for He alone gives life to all things and upholds all things by the word of His power.

24 “The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands; 25 nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things;” (Acts 17: 24-25)

1 “God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power (Hebrews 1: 1-3 NASB)

Referring back to the idea of God hiding His face from man on account of his sins and a breach in the relationship between God and man, the New Testament uses the word, “reconciliation”, when speaking to one of the things that Christ accomplished by His death on the cross.

Reconciliation is necessary when there is a breach created between two parties, either caused by the actions or words from one or both involved. This creates a state of hostility which needs to be repaired before the relationship can be restored.

In other words, God hides His face from man when He is angry with the man on account of sins. Thus, while the man is not utterly separated from His maker, the life-giving Spirit, he is separated from His gracious presence. He has no favor with God, no true expectation of having his prayers answered, or for that matter, even heard.

He has no promise of Divine protection, of God being a hiding place in time of trouble, a shield, a rock, a fortress, a deliverer, a strong tower, a mountain that surrounds him, a provider, a healer, etc. For God to no longer hide His face from that man, that same man must FIRST be reconciled to God. That is precisely what the gospel message tells him. Even more than that, it tells the sinner that God has made a way for that necessity of reconciliation to actually take place!

10 “For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.” (Romans 5: 10-11 NASB)

18 “Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.” (2 Cor 5:18-19 NASB)

In the case between God and man, God is the party aggrieved as it is not possible for the Almighty to do anything wrong. He did nothing to disturb the relationship that existed between Himself and Adam in the Garden. Everything Adam needed to be happy was given to him, including a companion fit for him. It was indeed a Paradise. Rather it was the man, who refused to obey the simple command from His Maker, who spoiled all things by one act of disobedience and thereby caused the breach in the relationship.

From that moment on, all mankind, every single human being ever born on this planet who traces their descent from Adam, entered life, by nature, as an enemy of God needing reconciliation. However, they are not utterly separated from the person of God, for the reasons we have cited above.

What is astonishing is that it was the God of all grace who would make provision to repair the relationship between Himself and His creature, not the man who actually initiated the breach.

Speaking directly to the serpent of old, God proclaimed his demise, a demise that would undo the ruin his temptation had brought on man.

As this promise would become more clearly defined with the passing of time, the Seed of the Woman, would Himself bring in a perfect righteousness, one that would be everlasting which would allow the breach, the separation between man and Himself to be closed.

18 “Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him
.” ( 2 Cor 5:18-21)

This was typed out in the Garden scene in the third chapter of Genesis:

“The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife, and clothed them.” ( Gen 3:21).

To obtain this clothing for both Adam and Eve, it was necessary for the animals to be slain. Why does it state that it was God who made the garments? Answer – to show that it was the God of all grace who initiated the reconciliation and that this reconciliation must needs involve the death of substitutes.

When God warned Adam…

16 “The LORD God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely;
17
but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.”” (Gen 2:16-17)

…He was not bluffing. The threatened punishment had to be inflicted or the Lord of Heaven and Earth would have been shown to be a liar, something that it is impossible for God to do (Hebrews 6).

Here was grace and mercy mixed with justice or as the Psalmist would tell us years later:

“Lovingkindness and truth have met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other.” (Psalm 85: 10-12)

Instead of the blow falling upon Adam and Eve, the Lord Himself, as He would do many, many years later for His servant Abraham, provided a sacrifice that would die in their place. The threat, “the soul that sins shall die” (Ezekiel 18:3), was carried out, but it was upon the substituted animals that the judgment would descend. Divine justice being satisfied, God could then justly deal in mercy with His now fallen creature. The animals were prefiguring the One, True sacrifice, the Lord Jesus, the One for Whom a Body would be prepared:

4 “For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. 5 Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says, “SACRIFICE AND OFFERING YOU HAVE NOT DESIRED, BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME; 6 IN WHOLE BURNT OFFERINGS AND sacrifices FOR SIN YOU HAVE TAKEN NO PLEASURE. 7 “THEN I SAID, ‘BEHOLD, I HAVE COME (IN THE SCROLL OF THE BOOK IT IS WRITTEN OF ME)TO DO YOUR WILL, O GOD.’“ (Hebrews 10:4-7)

Both Adam and Eve had the gospel message preached to them directly by God Himself. They in turn taught it to their sons. Where else did Abel learn that he needed to offer a firstling from his flock showing that he understood the demands of Divine justice that the blood of the substitute had to be shed for atonement for sin? ( Gen 4:4)

The apostle Paul clearly tells us in his letter to the Romans, that faith, true saving faith, comes by hearing the word of Christ, the gospel.

So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.” (Roman 10:17)

By faith Abel offered to God a better sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained the testimony that he was righteous, God testifying about his gifts, and through faith, though he is dead, he still speaks.“ (Hebrews 11: 4)

Abel understood that he needed a substitutionary sacrifice if his person was to be acceptable to God Most High. This he no doubt learned from his parents. This alone would reconcile him to God and close the breach between himself and His maker, albeit if only temporarily since the sacrifices had to be repeated constantly prior to the coming of the Perfect Lamb of God.

To sum up – Adam sinned in the Garden and as a result, his former relationship with God, His maker, was marred. Guilt and shame were now his new fellows. Hitherto, he knew nothing of either of these.

Guilt was created by his now fully active conscience and that produced the new sensation of FEAR. Before that, Adam had enjoyed sweet communion with God. Now he hid from his Maker. He understood a side of God that he previously had not known, namely one of perfect Justice who would by no means leave the guilty unpunished.

Shame also now wracked him. Before he had been naked before God and was not ashamed. His sin had now produced a sense of defilement and uncleanness in the presence of a Holy and Righteous God. He felt dirty, unclean, defiled when the Light of perfect holiness shown upon him in his newly fallen estate.

A breach in the relationship with the Creator had now been formed and mankind would never be the same. To close this breach, blood sacrifices were instituted, which allowed for a substitute, one without sin or defilement, to take the place of the guilty sinner and to take the stroke of Divine Justice upon itself in his place so that the other could be set free and have fellowship with His Creator once more.

This is all one needs to know to understand the gospel message of reconciliation, of redemption, of atonement, of propitiation. Any attempts to confound this simple meaning by the unwarranted use of extra-biblical terminology such as “spiritual death” or “separation death” merely muddies the waters and produces confusion where they need not be any.

PART 2

We went in great depth into these things to dispel the novel idea termed, “separation death” by the teachers of the CBV or “spiritual death”. To repeat, no where are these terms used in the Scriptures especially as they are defined by the CBV teachers.

As far as “spiritual death” goes…

The term is not found in the Scriptures. The concept might be but it needs to be correctly explained and therefore understood.

Paul states in Ephesians that all of us were “dead in our sins and transgressions”. That is as far as he goes. He does not use the terms, “spiritually dead” or “separation dead” (whatever that is supposed to mean).

It simply means that man in his fallen estate is devoid of the life of God in his soul. The New Testament defines this separation as being “alienated from or excluded from the life of God”.

17 “So this I say, and affirm together with the Lord, that you walk no longer just as the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their mind, 18 being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart;” (Eph 4:17-18 NASB)

17 “This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind, 18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart;” (Eph 4: 17-18 NKJV)

This alienation from the life of God is defined numerous times in the Scriptures:

“When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions…” (Col 2:13

“even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),” (Eph 2:5)

Conversion, regeneration, the new birth, being born again, is exactly what it says it is – it is a NEW LIFE coming into the sin-deadened soul of man. That life is the life of God Himself. It is one thing to say that all men depend on the life-Giving Ruler of all things for their existence. It is altogether another thing to say that the life of God is within them. The latter only comes to man through the new birth, or regeneration.

This new life loves righteousness while it hates sin. It loves that which is good and clings to that which is pure. It despises evil in any form. It sees sin as an ugly, deforming thing, a leprosy of the soul while it sees righteousness as a thing of beauty and that which is to be desired and sought for. It moves the man to please God in all that he does or says, while the man devoid of this life cares not a whit whether he is pleasing to God or not.

One man is alive to God; the other is dead. It is that simple. It needs not to be confounded by the introduction of extraneous terms such as “separation death” or “spiritual death”. Such extra -Biblical phrases only add to confusion and create uncertainty in the minds of some where none is needed.

Having dispensed with the notion that Adam experienced “separation death”, we now come to the more serious error concerning the nature of the death of Christ.

The teaching out of the CBV movement boldly asserts that the Lord Christ died “spiritually” or that He experienced “separation death”, since that was what Adam experienced and therefore, so their reasoning goes, so too must Christ if His death was to truly be substitutionary.

Of first importance, Christ was never separated from His Father. That is nowhere found in Scripture. What He did experience was the sense of being forsaken, abandoned, left to himself:

“My God, my God, why has thou forsaken me?” (Psalm 22:1)

He experienced what many of us go through when the sense of God’s presence of love and care is withheld. This takes place when one grieves the Holy Spirit and His communications of the love, grace, mercy and tender care over His people is lost through repeated sin.

In its place, he experienced for the first time ever, a sense of the wrath of God against sin. Prior to His offering of Himself, the gracious sense of His Father’s presence never left Him. Why did our Blessed Lord have to undergo such things? Because this is the just desert of all sinners. By nature, all of us are “children of wrath”.

“Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.“ (Eph 2: 3)

“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” (John 3:36)

Please note – this Scripture does not say that the wrath of God WILL COME upon him (in the future). It states that the wrath of God ABIDES (present tense) on him. He is already under the wrath of God and will remain so unless he repents and believes the gospel message. It abides on him now in the present and will follow him into eternity.

Read the entirety of Psalm 88 if you want to get a small sense of the amazing suffering that our blessed Lord went through for us! Mortal men cannot bear up under the wrath of God in its fulness but our Savior tasted it for all those for whom He came to die.

” 1 O LORD, the God of my salvation, 2 Let my prayer come before You; Incline Your ear to my cry! 3 For my soul has had enough troubles, And my life has drawn near to Sheol. 4 I am reckoned among those who go down to the pit; I have become like a man without strength,

13 But I, O LORD, have cried out to You for help, And in the morning my prayer comes before You. 14 O LORD, why do You reject my soul? Why do You hide Your face from me? 15 I was afflicted and about to die from my youth on; I suffer Your terrors; I am overcome. 16 Your burning anger has passed over me; Your terrors have destroyed me. 17 They have surrounded me like water all day long; They have encompassed me altogether. 18 You have removed lover and friend far from me; My acquaintances are in darkness.” (Psalm 88: 1-4, 13-18)

Now, it is important to understand that this burning anger of God is what is due to sin. His perfect Justice demands that He punish it. Our Substitute therefore had to undergo such if His sufferings for His elect was to be complete.

We accept this concept every day in the workings of our modern court system. A person is charged with a crime, brought before a judge and/or jury, tried and if found guilty, is sentenced with a punishment commensurate with the severity of the crime. The exact same thing goes with the Judge of Heaven and Earth when it comes to mankind. Once the guilt of the suspect is ascertained, and it has already been decided so, then the punishment must be meted out.

“…Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin;” (Romans 3:9)

Christ, the Substitute, was CHARGED WITH THE GUILT OF SIN. But this is important – His holy, spotless nature was never contaminated or defiled with it as is our nature.

“26 For it was fitting for us to have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners and exalted above the heavens; 27 who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself.” (Hebrews 7: 26-27)

Even as a sacrifice for sin, He retained every bit of his pure, unspotted, undefiled nature. To say that he became “separated from God” or “died spiritually” [apparently the CBV teachers use the terms interchangeably] , one would have to ask what was the cause of such a thing? It would assume a defilement of His nature would have taken place, which would have rendered His sacrifice unacceptable to God. That flies in the face of Scripture which states that the Father was pleased with the Lord Jesus’ sacrifice of Himself.

“But the Lord was pleased to crush Him, putting Him to grief; if He would render Himself as a guilt offering,“ (Isaiah 53:10 NASB)

Notice, Christ, the promised Messiah, rendered Himself as a guilt offering. He was not mystically transformed into sin, with His nature becoming corrupted but rather He took upon Himself the guilt of sin and therefore bore in His own person its just punishment.

This is also the clear teaching of the apostle Paul to the Corinthians in his second letter to that church:

“God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” (2 Cor 5: 21 NIV)

The NIV provides a marginal note properly defining the Greek word used for sin as a sin offering.

To repeat, to therefore say that Christ died “spiritually” (again, this term is not found in the Bible) would entail that somehow His nature became defiled, which is the only cause of separation from the goodness of God. That in itself is so grievous an error that it is unconscionable to me that anyone claiming to speak on behalf of Christ could assert it. The men propagating these things should rethink what they are stating as this is so reckless with the truth that it is terrifying! They apparently have not thought through the ramifications of the things which proceed out of their mouths.

Those who spout this foolishness err greatly therefore because it is a symptom of the lack of understanding of the doctrine of justification through faith alone. It has often been said, by myself and many others, that to be wrong on this foundational doctrine, is to make oneself liable to fall into all sorts of error and confusion.

The entire method whereby God justifies sinner is a legal or forensic one. It is a declaration by a Judge and is in its essence, purely OUTSIDE of the sinner. In itself, it effects no change INTERNALLY to the recipient. What is does change is the state or STANDING of that sinner before Heaven’s tribunal.

Let me add here briefly, so that my enemies do not take liberties with my statement above – Justification is never separated from sanctification of the sinner. Wherever the first is found, the latter ALWAYS accompanies it. But make no mistake, the two are completely different from each other. One affects the standing of the sinner; the other affects his nature.

This being established, Christ’s nature was never defiled in any form, shape or fashion as those advocating the teaching stating that He “died spiritually” or He suffered “separation death”. We have already stated that is impossible or else God would not

have accepted His sacrifice, the proof of which He would have left Him in the grave and never raised Him.

“10 But You, O LORD, be gracious to me and raise me up, That I may repay them. 11 By this I know that You are pleased with me, Because my enemy does not shout in triumph over me.” (Psalm 41:10-11)

When Christ completed His atoning work on the cross and His fulfillment of the Law by keeping it perfectly, He EARNED A RIGHTEOUSNESS as His reward with His resurrection being a Divine declaration to the world that His Father was pleased with Him and His sacrifice.

What took place at the cross was that our GUILT was credited or imputed to Him and God slew Him in our place.

What the Gospel tells us is that those who believe on Him for righteousness through faith, are then CREDITED or IMPUTED with it by God. There is a transfer of our guilt to Christ and a transfer of His righteousness (forensically speaking) to us done by none other than God Himself acting as a Judge.

This is what Paul speaks of his epistle to the Romans:

“because the Scripture says, “Abraham believed God, and ·God accepted Abraham’s faith, and that faith made him right with God [it was credited/counted to him for righteousness; Gen. 15:6].”

because the Scripture says, “Abraham believed God, and ·God accepted Abraham’s faith, and that faith made him right with God [L?it was credited/counted to him for righteousness; Gen. 15:6].”

When people work, their ·pay [wage] is not given [credited; counted] as a gift [grace], but as something earned [due to them]But people cannot do any work that will make them right with God. So they must trust in him ?But for the one who does not work, but trusts in God], who makes even evil people right in his sight [justifies/makes righteous the ungodly]. Then God ·accepts their faith, and that makes them right with him [credits/counts their faith for righteousness]David said the same thing. He said that people are truly blessed [happy; spiritually fulfilled] when God, without paying attention to their deeds [apart from works], makes people right with himself [credits/counts righteousness to them]. “Blessed [Happy; Spiritually fulfilled] are they whose sins [lawless deeds] are forgiven, whose wrongs [sins] are pardoned [covered; blotted out]. (Romans 4:3-7 EXB)

Notice, these are accounting terms used in this amplified translation – like an entry into a ledger – it deals solely with their standing before God. Nothing happens internally ( speaking strictly of the manner in which God declares them righteous).

Why am I emphasizing this? Because if it were anything other than a forensic declaration by the Judge of Heaven and Earth, if there was an actual transfer of INHERENT RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRIST into condemned sinners when it comes to this Divine declaration of righteousness, then the opposite side of the transaction would have to also be true, namely that our evil was actually transferred INTO CHRIST! That would entail that His nature became contaminated with sin. Perish the thought of such horror!

Yet that is exactly what those accusing Christ of dying “spiritually” or experiencing “separation death” are advocating. I had heard of a similar teaching many years ago by several of the people who were in the so-called “word of faith” group, but never thought that others might be advocating the same grievous error. Those teaching it came right out and boldly stated that Christ actually became sin! While I am unaware of any of the current teachers in the CBV movement who have categorically stated this, when one examines the ramifications of their use of the terms, “died spiritually” or suffered “separation death” in reality, one can clearly see how dangerous and how far outside the historic understanding of the death of Christ has become.

Do not miss the significance of this! It was the guilt of our sins that was charged against Christ (imputed to Him), not the inherent defilement of those sins. Now we do indeed become partakers of the Divine nature but that is a separate work outside of our justification. Again, this work will always accompany justification, but it is separate and needs remain as such.

This is the reason that the Catholic church never could grasp the true gospel during the days of the Protestant Reformation. They kept confounding the doctrine of justification with that of sanctification. That error was what made all their so-called “sacraments” necessary to complete the salvation of their followers. They failed to understand that the righteousness which comes through faith in Christ is perfect, nor can it ever be diminished in any true sense when it comes to their declared standing before God.

The point in all this is that when one reads or listens to the teachings of the Corporate Body View people, one should understand exactly what the ramifications of their errors leads to.

Jesus Christ did not “die spiritually”. He did not undergo “separation death”. He tasted death, physical death and experienced the sense of being forsaken, of undergoing the wrath of God and the loss of the gracious presence of His loving Father for guilty sinners, but He was NEVER SEPARATED from His Father at any time. He was always pleasing to His Father, even while He was suffering on that bloody cross.

Be on guard!

Dan Norcini SS
May 14, 2024

Posted in Eschatology | Leave a comment

Death of Adam: Spiritual-Only or Physical Also?

Ed Stevens – March 1, 2019

The two major views on resurrection within the Preterist movement (CBV versus IBV) part ways at the very beginning of the Bible in regard to how each defines the “death” that God threatened and carried out against Adam “on the very day” he sinned. The CBV defines it as a spiritual-only death, while the IBV sees it as a comprehensive death, including physical, spiritual, and eternal death.

Some might wonder how physical death (in any sense) could be included in the death that was threatened against Adam’s sin, especially since Adam did not personally die physically on that day. We will explain that down below.

The CBV affirms that the only kind of death Adam died on the day he sinned was spiritual. They deny Adam died physically in any sense “on the day” he sinned. In his book, We Shall Meet Him in the Air (WSMHA hereafter), Preston explains how crucial the spiritual-only Death of Adam concept is to his collective body framework:

[The] death of Adam, which is the focus of Christ’s end time resurrection work, has nothing to do with biological death, but with the loss of spiritual fellowship with God. . . if you mis-identify the death of the Garden, you will of necessity wrongly identify the nature of the resurrection in [the whole] New Testament. If your protology (doctrine of the beginning) is wrong, your eschatology (doctrine of the end) is destined to be misguided. [WSMHA, 4, boldface added]

To wrongly identify the death of Adam is to wrongly construct eschatology. To wrongly identify the nature and focus of Christ’s substitutionary, atoning work is to mis-interpret ... the story of redemption. We must place our understanding of . . . all eschatological passages within the proper context and framework or we are doomed to miss and/or misconstrue their message. [WSMHA, 20, boldface added]

Do you see what Preston has admitted here? This means that if the CBV concept of a spiritual-only Death of Adam is mistaken, then both their protology and eschatology are “wrong” and “misguided,” including their explanation of Christ’s substitutionary atonement and the whole story of redemption. And that would negate their entire collective body framework which is built on their assumption that the Death of Adam was spiritual-only.

Furthermore, the CBV cannot be right about the Death of Adam being spiritual-only, since it would necessarily imply that Christ did not need to die physically in order to overcome the spiritual-only death of Adam, and that the physical death of Jesus was not His substitutionary death for our atonement. But that fatally contradicts Hebrews 9:22 which states, “without the shedding of [Christ’s] blood there is no forgiveness.” That clearly demands that our substitutionary atonement could not have occurred without the physical death of Jesus. The CBV attempts to avoid this dilemma by redefining “blood” in Heb 9:22 as being “spiritual blood.” Steve Baisden, Holger Neubauer, and Don Preston defended that “spiritual blood” idea on FaceBook recently.

So, we see that the core issue distinguishing the CBV from the IBV is our respective definitions of the death that Adam died “on the very day” he sinned. And since these two diametrically-opposed definitions of the Death of Adam cannot both be right, it means that one of these two views is “wrong” and “misguided” (Preston’s words). Therefore, the whole debate between CBV and IBV can be settled right here on this very issue of the Death of Adam.

How we define the Death of Adam in Genesis will absolutely determine what we believe about the Death and Resurrection of Jesus and His saints in the New Testament. This immediately raises the question, “Why does the CBV absolutely insist that the only death that Adam died on the day he sinned was spiritual death?” Let’s look at the Genesis text to see what kind of death was both threatened and carried out upon Adam “in the day” he ate.

What Does ‘in the day you eat’ Mean?

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” (Gen 2:16-17, NKJV)

Notice that whatever kind of death God threatened against Adam was to be executed upon him “in the very day” he ate from the forbidden tree. There is nothing ambiguous about this language. It is very explicit. Therefore, it cannot be talking about the physical natural death of Adam nine-hundred years later. Instead, it can only be talking about a penal death that Adam would die “in the very day he ate.” No other death at any other time will fit the clear language here.

Many commentaries try to explain away this language by suggesting that Adam merely began to die on that day, or that he became mortal (subject to eventual death), or that the death penalty was only imputed against him on that day. But there is not a hint of those ideas in the context. God explicitly warned Adam that if he ate from the forbidden tree, he would die “in the very same day he ate.”

Furthermore, we need to note that Preston totally agrees with me on this. In his book, he spends three full pages contending for this idea that whatever kind of death it was that was threatened, it had to be the same kind of death that was actually carried out in the very same 24-hour day that Adam sinned. Here is how Don argues that case:

Did Adam and Eve die [physically] the day that they ate the forbidden fruit? … The vast majority say, “No, Adam and Eve did not die [physically] the day they ate.” Interestingly however, when we point out that God said they would die that day, and that Satan said they would not die that day, there is an immediate recognition that their view has a serious problem! The denial that Adam and Eve died the day they ate the fruit makes Satan the one who told the truth . . . This conundrum, is very real. Who really told the truth, God, or Satan?

It will be readily admitted that the term “day” can be used metaphorically. . . .

[However] only context can determine what “the day” means in any given text. Do we have any contextual help for understanding what “the day” means in Genesis 2:16f? We do indeed.

Note that YHVH told Adam and Eve, “In the day that you eat thereof, you will surely die.” When Satan confronted Eve, he told her, “You will not surely die, but, God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil” (Genesis 3:5). Notice the direct correlation between “in the day you eat you will surely die” and “in the day you eat you will know good and evil.”

Of course, Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit. The question therefore is, in what day did they come to know good and evil? Was that knowledge imparted 900 years later?

Did they continue in their innocence for several more centuries? The answer is obvious, is it not? They knew good and evil in that very day, the day marked by the sun, moon, and stars, a twenty-four hour day.

The identical term “in the day” is used to say they would die, and they would come to know good and evil. Where is the contextual evidence that “in the day that you eat you will surely die,” can be extrapolated into almost a millennium?

Consider the grammatical problem of saying Adam and Eve did die spiritually that day, but they did not die physically for hundreds of years. This means that the same identical term, in the same verse, has two totally disparate, contradictory, definitions. We are told that “in the day that you eat, you will surely die,” means that in that very same twenty-four hour period, they would lose their fellowship life with YHVH and be cast out of His presence. But then, that same identical statement, within the same verse, meant you will die physically hundreds of years from now! What rule of grammar, of linguistics, of semantics, of hermeneutic, allows the identical term, in the identical verse, to mean two totally different things? It appears from our vantage point that only a preconceived idea of the nature of the death of Adam can force this kind of meaning onto the text. [WSMHA, 5-7, boldface and bracketed words added for clarity and emphasis]

Thus, it seems clear that the phrase “in the day you eat” in the context of Genesis 2-3 absolutely means that Adam would certainly die some kind of death within the same twenty-four-hour day that he ate the forbidden fruit. There is simply no grammatical or contextual justification for the idea that this death could occur sometime later. Whatever kinds of death were threatened (spiritual and/or physical), they all had to occur literally “on the very same day he ate.”

And we need to note that Preston’s whole spiritual-only Death of Adam position critically depends on this idea that the threatened death (whatever it was) must have occurred on the very same 24-hour day that Adam sinned. So that raises the question: What kinds of death were threatened and carried out “on the very same day they ate”?

What Kind of Death Did God Threaten?

In the conversation between the Serpent and the woman (Genesis 3:1-6), we can discern what her concept of the threatened death must have been. The Serpent questioned what God said: “Did God actually say that you could not eat from every tree in the garden?” The woman replied: “We do eat from the trees of the garden, except this one about which God said, do not eat of it, nor even touch it, lest you die.” But the Serpent said: You will not surely die, for God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened and you will be like God knowing good and evil.” So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, a delight to the eyes, and would make her wise, she took and ate.

Notice the four italicized statements above:

(1) not to eat of it, nor even touch it, lest you die;
(2) You will not surely die;
(3) good for food;
(4) delight to the eyes.

The woman associated three physical actions with the threatened death, eating, touching, and seeing. This implies that she understood the death threat to be physical death, since there is no indication that she already knew what spiritual death was. In fact, since they had not yet sinned, they could not have known what spiritual death was. Her spiritual eyes had not been opened yet. But she was able to see the delightful-looking tree with her physical eyes. And since she associated the threatened death with those three physical actions (eating, touching, and seeing), it strongly, if not necessarily, implies that her concept of the threatened death was physical.

This conclusion is further supported by the fact that when the Serpent reassured her that they would not die by touching it or eating it, she understood that the fruit was safe to eat (i.e., “good for food” Genesis 3:6). It would not kill them. It does not appear that she had any concept of spiritual death (sin-death) whatsoever. Her only concern appears to have been whether they would physically die from touching and eating the fruit.

Furthermore, Eve got this physical concept of death from Adam, and Adam got it straight from God, which necessarily implies that physical death was at least included in the kinds of death that God threatened to execute upon them “in the very day they ate.”

This means that when God showed up “in the cool of the day” they should have been struck dead on the spot, in the same way Ananias and Sapphira were struck dead on the very day they lied to Peter and the Holy Spirit (Acts 5). God did that very kind of thing to Ananias and Sapphira, so why did he not kill Adam and Eve “on the very day they sinned”? Below we explain how there actually was a physical death on behalf of Adam and Eve on the very day they sinned.

How Was That Physical Death Carried Out?

“The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife, and clothed them.” [Gen 3:21, NAS95]

Notice that little word “skin.” Many commentaries point out that this necessarily implies that an animal was slain by God in order to provide these “garments of skin” for Adam and Eve. But God was not merely concerned about covering their physical nakedness. He was even more concerned about their forgiveness and spiritual well-being.

Chandler and McKeever explain how the physical death of that animal in the garden on the very day they sinned brought provisional forgiveness to Adam and Eve, and was the beginning of the substitutionary sacrificial system which pointed straight to Jesus who provided the full and final once-for-all atonement through His physical death on the Cross. Notice Chandler’s emphasis on the idea of a “sacrificial substitute,” or “substitute victim,” which “represented the death owed by the man”:

In harmony with God’s preplanned arrangement for atonement, physical death was required “in the day” of the sin, and was just as surely given! An animal was slain from which clothes were taken in the form of skins. It must be so that the slain animal was the substitute victim for Adam and Eve. Physical death came into Eden “in that day,” but it came upon man’s sacrificial substitute. When the animal was slain, it represented the death owed by the man. [Darwin Chandler. “The Fate of Innocence,” Expository Review (vol. 1, no. 10, Oct. 1982) boldface added]

Throughout the rest of the Old Testament, this pattern of atonement for sins is followed: physical death of a perfect animal (i.e., without blemish or spot) on behalf of the sinner, although the blood of these bulls and goats could not take away sins (Heb 10:4). This pattern culminated in the real thing, which God had promised in the beginning – Gen 3:15

– the physical death of the perfect Lamb of God on the Cross on behalf of his people. [Stacia McKeever, “What Does Jesus’s Death Accomplish?” Answers in Genesis website article. boldface added]

Were Adam and Eve Forgiven?

Recently, in one of his FaceBook discussions, Preston was asked if he believed Adam and Eve were forgiven before they left the garden. He replied that they were NOT forgiven before they left the garden, nor afterwards, as far as he knew.

That is a very disturbing admission by Preston. If true, it would mean that the first parents of our human race died unforgiven and will spend eternity outside the Presence of God. Andrew Willet reminds us that the heretic Tatian taught that very same thing, i.e., “that Adam was damned [never forgiven].” But then Willet asks, “If Adam had no faith remaining, to what purpose should God have propounded the promise of the Messiah to a faithless man (Gen 3:15)?” [Commentary on Genesis, vol. 2. Thompson, ed., Reformation Commentary on Scripture, vol. 1, 162. italics added]

The Protoevangelium, or first statement of the gospel (Gen 3:15), provides proof that God had forgiven them. The promise of a descendant to crush the Serpent shows that God gave them a future. They were not going to die on that day. The animal was slain in substitute for them, and its skin was a visible reminder of its substitutionary sacrificial death on their behalf. Thus, Adam and Eve left the garden in a forgiven state.

Gulley notes that “As soon as there was sin, there was a Savior.” As soon as they sinned, God proclaimed the gospel to them (Gen 3:15) and offered a sacrifice for their provisional forgiveness as they looked toward the future Coming One who would fulfill that physical substitutionary sacrificial typology once-for-all by His physical death on the Cross. [Gulley, Creation, Christ, Salvation, Systematic Theology vol. 3, 416]

Restoration of Fellowship?

Notice what the following writers have to say about the forgiveness and restoration of fellowship of Adam and Eve:

Because [God] always seeks to forgive and restore what was lost, each covenant contains the element of forgiveness, either implicitly or explicitly, and each covenant—after the Fall—aims to restore what was lost, and that restoration can only come about by God’s gracious gift. … The church has long understood the skin garment episode (Gen 3:21) as an adumbration of Christ and his sacrifice, in much the same way as the later Levitical animal sacrifices anticipate that of the Son. Surely this is correct. [Jeffrey J. Niehaus, “The Common Grace Covenants,” in vol. 1 of Biblical Theology, Accordance electronic ed. (Wooster: Weaver Book Company, 2014), 77-80.]

God subsequently clothes them to signify their inaugurated restoration to him (Gen. 3:21). [G.K. Beale, A New Testament Biblical Theology, Accordance electronic ed. (Grand Rapids: Baker Academic, 2011), 41. boldface added]

Yet God also revealed a way in which human sin could be forgiven and the broken relationship restored. God himself provided a substitute (an animal) whose blood (life) would atone for sin (Genesis 3:21). This began the sacrificial system. This revealed that once atonement had been made it was again possible for humankind to enter God’s presence which was manifested at the ark. However, this was done only through a mediator, the high priest, who represented God’s people (Exodus 28:12, 29). The sacrifices and the atonement conducted by the priests of Israel foreshadowed a coming sacrifice and a high priest who would make atonement once for all. [Randall Price, Rose Guide to the Temple, 4. boldface added]

The garments of skin were God’s provision for restoring Adam’s and Eve’s fellowship with Himself and imply slaying of an animal in order to provide them. [Ryrie, The Ryrie Study Bible, Expanded, paragraph 245. boldface added]

From the beginning, some of the first notable changes that would attest to a new [covenantal] arrangement were a different location (cf. 3:24), additional descendants in the first family (4:1–2), and a sacrifice-based relationship of blood atonement with God (4:3–5). The blood sacrifice was the only acceptable means of reconciliation for those faithful ones who sought to remain in personal fellowship with Him. … this alteration of relationship (now indirect) was portrayed in the first act of personal redemption as personally accomplished by the Lord for Adam and Eve (Gen 3:21). [Ervin Starwalt, “Issue 8: April 1999.” ConTJ 3 (Apr 1999): p. 109. boldface added]

The Protoevangelium (Genesis 3:15), God’s promise to bring forth a kinsman-redeemer from the seed of Eve who would crush the serpent’s head, is further acted out in the substitutionary sacrifice that God performed in front of Adam and Eve. This certainly had to be the beginning of the sacrificial system, and the origin of the sacrificial lamb motif that recurs constantly throughout both testaments. For instance, we see Abel offer a lamb from his flocks, the ram (lamb) caught in a thicket on Mount Moriah, the Passover lamb in Egypt, the statement of John the Baptist about Jesus being the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world, and preeminent of all, that marvelous text in Revelation (5:6) where John saw “a Lamb standing as if slain.”

‘Died With’ and ‘Put On’

When God killed a sacrificial animal to provide skins for Adam and Eve to cover their nakedness, that sacrificial Lamb died in their place. They “died with” the lamb on that day, and “put on” the skin of that lamb to cover their guilt and shame. This is sacrificial language. Whoever pays for the sacrifice gets the benefits of that sacrifice (escape from death and forgiveness of sin).

So, when the lamb died physically on that day , they “died with” it, just like we “die with” Christ on the day of our conversion (Rom 6:8; Col 2:20; 2Tim 2:11; cf. Rom 6:4-5; Gal 2:19-20; 1Pet 2:24). They “put on” the skins of the sacrificial lamb in the same way we “put on” Christ in our conversion (Rom 13:14; Eph 4:24; Col 3:10-12; Rev 3:5; 3:18; 19:8; 2Cor 5:21; Rom 5:19; Phlp 3:9), which covers our sin and enables us to stand uncondemned and righteous in God’s presence.

The skin of that animal not only covered their guilt and shame, but also pointed to their new immortal bodies which God would provide through the death of His Son, the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world (John 1:29, 36). The prophet Isaiah (53:7 -8) points to this very thing (“like a lamb…cut off…for the transgression of my people to whom the stroke was due”). And Revelation 5:6 pictures Christ before the heavenly throne as “a lamb standing as if slain.” God provided the sacrificial Lamb for Himself (Gen. 22:8). When we “die with” Him and “put on” the garments of Christ, we are given hope of life in heaven with a new immortal body.

God promised a redeemer, and the sacrificial system was instituted on that very day to bear witness to the coming Son of Adam who would be the Lamb of God to take away the power of sin and death. He died for us (Rom 5:8; 1Thess 5:10). They “died with” that lamb “on that day,” and thus began the redemptive drama through the substitutionary sacrificial system.

Conclusion

Everything is at stake here for the CBV view. Their whole eschatological system is built on their spiritual-only Death of Adam position. It is the very foundation of their view. They absolutely CANNOT have physical death in any sense included in the kinds of death that were threatened and carried out upon Adam “on the very day he sinned.”

Preston claims (and I agree) that if we wrongly identify the Death of Adam, we will automatically mis-interpret the story of redemption, wrongly construct eschatology, and wrongly identify the nature of the resurrection in the whole New Testament. This means that if the CBV has mis-identified the Death of Adam as being spiritual-only (and they have), then their whole CBV view of eschatology is “wrong” and “misguided” (Preston’s words).

We have shown (and Preston agrees) that no matter what kind of death was threatened against Adam, it had to be carried out on the very same twenty-four-hour day that Adam ate (Genesis 2:17). We also showed that Eve understood that threat to at least include physical death (Genesis 3:1-6). And we saw how an innocent animal did die physically on that day to not only provide a covering for their nakedness, but also to be a substitute sacrifice for the provisional forgiveness of their sin (Genesis 3:21; Hebrews 9:22). That animal died in their place, and they died with it, just like we die with Christ. That began the whole substitutionary sacrificial system which pointed straight to Jesus who was the ultimate fulfillment of that sacrificial typology.

Furthermore, if the threatened death did NOT include physical death, as the CBV contends, then Jesus did NOT need to die physically in order to save us from the Death that Adam introduced through his sin. It would also mean that Christ’s physical death was NOT his substitutionary death for our atonement.

We also noted that Hebrews 9:22 (“without the shedding of Christ’s blood there is no forgiveness”) indisputably shows that physical blood had to be shed in order for us to have forgiveness. So it is not surprising to see the CBV advocates redefine “blood” here in Hebrews 9:22 as being “spiritual blood” and not literal physical blood. They are forced to do that by their “spiritual-only Death of Adam” concept. But that would trample the precious physical blood of Christ underfoot and treat it as unnecessary for our forgiveness and substitutionary atonement.

Thus, we have demonstrated that physical death was included in the kinds of death that were both threatened against Adam and executed on the very day he sinned. This means that the CBV has mis-identified the Death of Adam by saying it was spiritual-only. And therefore, the whole CBV view of eschatology is “wrong” and “misguided.”

Posted in Collective Body View, Eschatology | Leave a comment

Why Do We Still Die?

Edward E. Stevens – May 1, 2024

Advocates of the Collective Body View (CBV) often ask us IBV folks the question that is posed in the title. They base this question on their mistaken belief that the only kind of death that was threatened and carried out against Adam (Gen 2:17) was spiritual death, and therefore the only kind of death Jesus needed to die in order to overcome the death of Adam was likewise spiritual.

Here is their logic:

• Since Adam did not die a physical death on the day he sinned,
• Then physical death cannot be the kind of death that was threatened.
• And since Adam did die a spiritual death on the day he sinned,
• It means that Jesus had to die a spiritual death to overcome it.
• So, since the death threatened against Adam was spiritual-only,
• And since the only kind of death Jesus needed to die was spiritual-only,
• Then the physical death of Jesus was NOT his substitutionary death to overcome the death of

Adam, nor did His physical death save us from dying physically.

They mistakenly think that we IBV folks are teaching that the physical death of Jesus was for the purpose of abolishing physical death, and therefore since physical death has obviously not been abolished for anyone (i.e., all men still die), then physical death could not have been the death that was threatened against Adam, nor could it have been the death that Jesus had to die in order to overcome the death of Adam. That is why the CBV folks claim that the death that was defeated by Christ must have been spiritual death only.

However, in the associated article (Death of Adam.pdf) we show why the death threat against Adam (Gen 2:17) DID include a penal physical death which had to be carried out on the very same day that Adam sinned – NOT at his natural death nine hundred years later.

That article shows how God sacrificed an innocent animal which died as a substitute for Adam on the very day he sinned (Gen 3:21), and that substitutionary sacrifice was a TYPE which pointed straight to Jesus who would likewise die physically as our full and final substitute sacrifice for sin (Hebrews 9:22). Be sure to read that article to get the full story on this.

So, here is the logic behind their CBV question:

• If the death threatened against Adam was physical death,
• And if the physical death of Jesus overcame that physical death of Adam,
• Then there should no longer be any physical death.
• Therefore, why do we still die physically?

Of course, the short answer to their question is simply that we still die physically for the same reason Adam died physically after he left the Garden. It is because he lost access to the Tree of Life which would have sustained his life on earth forever. And all of his descendants, including us today, still die physically because we do not have access to the Tree of Life (immortality). That access is reserved in heaven for us.

And it was an act of mercy and grace on God’s part to remove Adam from the Garden and allow him to die so that he would not be doomed to live forever on earth separated from God. God wanted Adam to dwell with him in heaven where he would once again have access to the Tree of Life and live forever.

However, even though the Tree of Life was restored to the saints at the Parousia, full experiential access to it is only found in heaven. That is why those first century saints had to be taken to heaven in order to eat from the Tree and have eternal life (immortality). All of us saints after the Parousia have the same right to eat from the Tree of Life, but we have to die and go to heaven before we can experience the full immortal benefits of it.

Thus, the Tree of Life (immortality, eternal life) is just like perfection, knowing fully as we are known, seeing Christ face-to-face, and all the other things that were supposed to arrive at the Parousia. They arrived once-for-all back then, and they are available NOW (in heaven), but NOT HERE (on earth). They are reserved in heaven for us, and we have to go to heaven at death to take possession of them and experience them in their fullness.

I hope that helped. Be sure to take a look at the other document (Death of Adam.pdf) that was attached to this same email. And feel free to email me and ask for more info on this.

Posted in Collective Body View, Eschatology | Leave a comment

Understanding the phrase “Flesh and Blood”

by Dan Norcini

Within the Preterist system of eschatology, there now exists a particular interpretation of some expressions that are used in the New Testament, which are a radical departure from their usual historical meaning. The system I am referring to can best be summed up as the “Corporate Body View” (CBV for short).

What those who adhere to and who are teaching this view have done is to take a number of the passages that have historically been understood as referring to Individual Christians (Individual Body View or IBV for short) and apply them to the church corporately. In other words, passages which were understood as referring to individual Christians are now interpreted to refer to the church considered as a “body”.

The resurrection passage of 1 Corinthians 15 is a good example of their hermeneutic. Without going into depth, suffice it to say that what has historically been understood throughout most of church history to be referring to the change in Christians upon death when they receive an incorruptible, immortal body that fits them for their eternal inheritance, the proponents of the CBV state that this is not the case. They argue that the change spoken of by the Apostle Paul is the change that the Church underwent with the destruction of the Jewish Temple in 70AD by the Roman army, when the last vestige of the Old Covenant was swept away making room for the New Covenant age. In other words, the “great change” is not dealing with the change in the nature of believers’ bodies, but rather the change in the state of the Church corporately as it enters into the fulness of the New Covenant.

It is not the purpose of this particular paper to deal with what this writer considers to be a gross mischaracterization of the Apostle’s words, but rather how the CBV teachers have sadly been forced to change the simple and obvious meanings of phrases and words in the New Testament in order to support their paradigm, a paradigm which I believe is doing great harm to the Preterist view of eschatology.

Consider the following text of Scripture:

“ Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,” ( 1 Cor 15:50-51)

As one example of how these teachers are wresting the meaning of phrases, they argue that the “change” spoken of by Paul, refers to the change in the status of all believers under the full implementation of the New Covenant. It is more of a change in the mind, when the church corporately (the Church considered as a body) moves out from under the shadow of the Old Covenant which was still existing at the time Paul penned this letter to the church at Corinth, and enters into the age of the New Covenant in its fulness. What has historically been understood as the resurrection of the body and the change in its nature, has now been reinterpreted to mean more of a raising to a new and different status, an enlightenment of the mind in which the church reaches maturity in its understanding.

Needless to say, this is quite a radical departure from the historical understanding of this passage.

In explaining this passage, the CBV teachers take the phrase, “that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God”, and tell us that this means those under the Old Covenant. They cite no proof for this redefining of the expression, “flesh and blood”; they simply assert that this is the meaning of the phrase, and then move on to their novel interpretation of the verse.

Perhaps the best way to try to convince those who have adopted this view, is to understand the phrase by referencing other places in the New Testament in which it has been used.

Here are those passages:

“Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, He was asking His disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?” 14 And they said, “Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.” 15 He *said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. (Matt 16:13-17)

Here, Matthew records the event in which Jesus is questioning His disciples as to how the public of His day views Him. When Peter provides the answer, that Jesus is indeed the long awaited promised Messiah, the Son of God ( see Psalm 2:7 as one reference declaring the Messiah was to be the Son of God), Jesus uses the expression, “flesh and blood”.

This is one of several uses of this expression which we will find in the New Testament. It is evident from its use here, that Jesus is telling Peter that mortal men, unaided by any direct revelation from God, could not have revealed this truth to Peter, but rather it was a direct revelation by God the Father that came to Peter through the instrumentality of the Holy Spirit – the spirit of wisdom and revelation.

Let’s try substituting the meaning of this phrase using the definition of the CBV teachers.

Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because men living under the Old Covenant did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

Hmmm….There is some truth in that since at the time Jesus was questioning His disciples, the people of the day are certainly living under the Old Covenant. Those certainly had not instructed Peter who Jesus was in truth. So while the interpretation given of the phrase by the CBV folks is not what has historically been used with this passage, it is not outlandish even if it is a bit odd.

Let’s move onto the next usage of the phrase:

“But when God, who had set me apart even from my mother’s womb and called me through His grace, was pleased 16 to reveal His Son in me so that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with flesh and blood, 17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went away to Arabia, and returned once more to Damascus.” (Gal 1: 15-17)

Here the Apostle Paul is writing to the churches throughout the Galatian region and telling them what he did after his conversion. Notice that he did not seek guidance from mortal men as to what he should do next but instead retreated to the solitude of Arabia, where more than likely he used the time to reflect and rethink his entire understanding of the Scriptures and its prophecies. In other words, there were none he could turn do and give him counsel so he followed the inward working of his spirit and left for Arabia.

In the usage of the phrase in this passage, it is clear that “flesh and blood” means flawed, fallible men, men who are oftentimes unsure of their own direction in life. Why would the apostle seek guidance from such after such a heavenly encounter and a shattering of all that he once held dear as far as his own understanding of truth.

Following our methodology, here would be the CBV interpretation:

“But when God, who had set me apart even from my mother’s womb and called me through His grace, was pleased 16 to reveal His Son in me so that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with men living under the Old Covenant 17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went away to Arabia, and returned once more to Damascus.” (Gal 1: 15-17)

As is the case with the first example out of Matthew’s gospel – a bit odd of an interpretation, but not all that outlandish considering that the only possible men that the apostle would have consulted with might have been his former Jewish friends and acquaintances from his pre-conversion days, no doubt living under the Old Covenant.

Moving along:

“For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.” (Eph 6:12)

Here the contrast is between mortal human beings and demonic forces that shape the political and philosophical ideologies that govern the world system of not only that day, but ours as well. “Flesh and blood”, is used to exaggerate the stark difference between weak men, and powerful spiritual entities. Men who are liable to death and attack as opposed to entities that cannot be conquered or vanquished by any sort of physical weapon of the day or any other means that men had devised to wreak havoc and ruin upon those who opposed them.

Try substituting the CBV view here:

“For our struggle is not against men living under the Old Covenant, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.” (Eph 6:12)

It is now that we are beginning to see the error in the CBV explanation of the phrase. Quite frankly, redefining the expression using their definition, makes the entire passage inaccurate to the point of folly. While the Jews of Paul’s day were living under the Old Covenant and were indeed involved in fierce persecution of the early church, the Gentiles of his day, were certainly not under the Old Covenant and yet opposition to the spread of the gospel involved them as well.

As a matter of fact, these Gentiles had never even heard of the term” the Covenant of Moses”, the Mosaic Law, David, Isaiah, Jeremiah, etc, or any of the Hebrew prophets who had all foretold the coming of a New Covenant.

If one thinks back to Paul’s experience in the city of Ephesus, we find that Paul and his companions were fiercely set upon by Gentile worshippers of the goddess Artemis ( Diana). ( See Acts 19: 23-41). None of these Gentiles were men living under the Old Covenant, a covenant that they had no knowledge of nor knew of its existence. Yet the letter to the Ephesians and the passage in its sixth chapter noted above, is directed towards the church at the very city where this attack, this “struggle” had taken place.

It is clear that the phrase “flesh and blood” cannot simply mean, men living under the Old Covenant.

Here we are beginning to see what we will conclusively see in our next verses quoted, namely, that the expression, “flesh and blood” is a figure of speech, a metonymy to be exact. The best way to understand it comes from the passage in Hebrews 2 which I quote in full to help convey the proper understanding of the phrase:

“But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for all. For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to perfect the author of their salvation through sufferings. 11 For both He who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one Father; for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren, 12 saying,

“I WILL PROCLAIM YOUR NAME TO MY BRETHREN,

IN THE MIDST OF THE CONGREGATION I WILL SING YOUR PRAISE.”

And again,

“I WILL PUT MY TRUST IN HIM.”

And again,

“BEHOLD, I AND THE CHILDREN WHOM GOD HAS GIVEN ME.”

Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and might free those who through fear of death were subject to slavery all their lives. 16 For assuredly He does not give help to angels, but He gives help to the descendant of Abraham. 17 Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. (Hebrews 2: 9-17)

Here the metonymy is used to convey quite forcefully, a supreme Scriptural truth – namely, Jesus had to become like His children in ALL THINGS.

Why?

For two important reasons:

First, under the Law of Moses, a type was set forth pointing to a greater antitype. This was the Kinsman Redeemer.

The relevant passages are found in Leviticus:

Now if the means of a stranger or of a sojourner with you becomes sufficient, and a countryman of yours becomes so poor with regard to him as to sell himself to a stranger who is sojourning with you, or to the descendants of a stranger’s family, 48 then he shall have redemption right after he has been sold. One of his brothers may redeem him, 49 or his uncle, or his uncle’s son, may redeem him, or one of his blood relatives from his family may redeem him; or if he prospers, he may redeem himself.” (Lev 25:47-49)

Please observe that the redeemer had to be a blood relative to buy his freedom if he was too poor to put up his own redemption price.

This “goel” (Hebrew go el) could buy back the land of one of his relatives that had been sold to pay a debt or to buy back the freedom of one of his relatives if the poor soul had no choice but to sell himself into servitude to pay off a debt.

The important thing here, and that which the apostle Paul is reminding the Hebrews to whom he is primarily writing in his day, is that the promised Messiah, this Jesus, was that he had to made in all things like His brethren whom He would come to redeem from their sins. This meant that He had to become a partaker of their nature, or else He would not have fit the type laid out in Leviticus of being related to them by blood.

This is the first point. The second important point follows from the first.

It was necessary that this kinsman redeemer be made a “little while lower than the angels”. Why? In order that He might be able to suffer death, tasting it as the apostle states.(verse 9).

Verse 14 then repeats the same premise:

Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, (Hebrews 2: 14)

In other words, this Son of God ( Hebrews 1:2), this heir of all things, this exact representation of God’s nature who upholds all things by the word of His power, had to take upon Himself human nature to become like His children, for this one reason, He HAD TO BE ABLE TO SUFFER AND DIE. God Himself is Immortal, He cannot die since He has no beginning and no end. Yet, if redemption of the children were to be accomplished, it would take a man, liable to suffer and death, to complete it.

The point is clear – the phrase, “flesh and blood” is a figure of speech meaning man, as he is frail, liable to pain and suffering, liable to death. It means that and that alone. Any other so-called interpretation of that phrase, such as that employed by the teachers within the CBV movement, renders this passage inexplicable and totally outside of the clear context.

Let’s try it and see:

“Therefore, since the children share in being men living under the Old Covenant, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, and might free those who through fear of death were subject to slavery all their lives.16 For assuredly He does not give help to angels, but He gives help to the descendant of Abraham.17 Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. (Hebrews 2: 14-17)

Again, referring back to verse 9, that Jesus had to be made for a little while lower than the angels, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for all….

What does this have to do with the Old Covenant in this context? The correct answer is NOTHING!

The reason He had to become flesh and blood (also being defined as being made for a little while lower than the angels) is for the sole purpose of being able to suffer death. The entire passage we have been referring to states the necessity of Jesus becoming flesh and blood and that purpose was to be able to suffer and die. Look at how often we see the words, suffered, sufferings, death, in this passage.

This is NOT COVENANTAL language of any sort. It is language that shows the necessity of Jesus becoming fully man to shed His blood and suffer a cruel death on the cross. The meaning therefore of the phrase “flesh and blood” is simply this:

Mankind, liable to pain, suffering, weariness, sorrow, heartache and death. Jesus became a man so that He could fully experience these things and in so doing, render Him a perfect and faithful High Priest, who having experienced the same, could sympathize with the temptations and weaknesses and sufferings of those for whom He ever lives to make intercession:

“Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. For since He Himself was tempted in that which He has suffered, He is able to come to the aid of those who are tempted. (Hebrews 2: 17-18)

“For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.” (Hebrews 4:15)

“Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.” (Hebrews 7:25)

This should be conclusive enough proof to the fair-minded individual seeking truth who are not blindly married to a paradigm which requires them to come up with forced and tortured explanations of the simple and clear meaning of Scripture. But we will go the extra mile to try to dispel any objections to these things.

Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, (Hebrews 2: 14)

Some of those holding to CBV might argue that “the children” spoken of here, would certainly include Jews living under the Old Covenant, and therefore their interpretation of the phrase, “flesh and blood”, as men living under the Old Covenant would still be a valid understanding. After all, they might argue, that Paul is writing to Jewish believers, all of whom were formerly living under the Old Covenant.

The problem with this however is that the definition is far too narrow since it excludes a significant portion of the entire seed of Abraham. We are clearly taught in the New Testament that this seed of Abraham includes ALL THOSE, both Jew and Gentiles, for whom Jesus gave His life and who would come to embrace Him through faith. As previously mentioned above, there was not a single GENTILE EVER LIVING under the Old Covenant. Paul specifically excludes them from that covenant in his letter to the Ephesians:

“Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. (Eph 2: 11-13)

The seed of Abraham, as Paul reminds the Galatian church, are all those who have faith in

Christ:

“For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.” (Gal 3:26-29)

“For assuredly He does not give help to angels, but He gives help to the descendant of Abraham. 17 Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. (Hebrews 2: 14-17)

Note well, Jesus had to partake of flesh and blood, to give help to ALL the DESCENDANTS of Abraham ( Seed of Abraham); not just the Jewish portion of believers but also of the Gentiles.

In closing, let’s go back to the first Scripture verse we quoted to begin this essay.

“Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,” ( 1 Cor 15:50-51)

One last time, we will use the CBV interpretation of these verses:

“Now I say this, brethren, that men living under the Old Covenant cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,” ( 1 Cor 15:50-51)

It is this writer’s firm hope, that those advocating for the novel view that has been espoused by the CBV teachers, will come to see the folly in force fitting a strange and radical view of the phrase, “flesh and blood” into a passage that has nothing to do with a change in Covenants but rather is stating the obvious and long-held historical belief of the church. Mankind, considered in its weak form, liable to suffering, sorrow and death, sickness and disease, etc. cannot inherit the kingdom of God. For that, a change, a great change, is required. The corruptible, frail, mortal body, the state of being liable to death, must be changed to something fit for its heavenly inheritance which as the apostle Peter tells the church of his day:

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,4 to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.…” (1 Peter 1: 3-5)

The church’s inheritance is RESERVED in HEAVEN. There is the Land of Promise. While we may experience a foretaste of that blessed state in this life, (and there are indeed times when the Lord is pleased to grant those who love Him such a taste) the fulness remains for all believers upon death. Death has been conquered and defeated. It’s sting has been removed by its great Conqueror, the Lord Christ. It has lost its power to harm any true child of God and they no longer need have any fear of it. Instead, the great enemy of mankind, has now been transformed as the means through which the child of God enters into eternal bliss; the gateway or portal whereby he or she beholds the Celestial City of Bunyan’s ‘Pilgrim’s Progress’, no longer through the eye of faith as we currently see it, but in reality, in experience and in truth.

This is the reason Paul wrote to the church at Philippi and told them:

“For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22 But if I am to live on in the flesh, this will mean fruitful labor for me; and I do not know which to choose. 23 But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better; 24 yet to remain on in the flesh is more necessary for your sake. 25 Convinced of this, I know that I will remain and continue with you all for your progress and joy in the faith, 26 so that your proud confidence in me may abound in Christ Jesus through my coming to you again.” (Phil 1:21-26)

The apostle longed for his entrance into the eternal inheritance even with all the great knowledge he had of gospel truths and all the riches he taught that those in Christ already possessed. They had already come to Mt. Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to myriads of angels, to the generally assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new and better covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel. (Hebrews 12:22-24).

He knew and taught these things to not only Jewish believers but to all the churches and yet, even knowing these things and laying hold of them through faith, he still knew something far above and beyond the assurance of these things remained for him to personally experience upon his entrance into heaven to be with His beloved Lord.

Their faith would be swallowed up in sight, Hope fulfilled and love for Christ undimmed by human weakness and frailty.

May the Lord bless this essay to its readers.

Daniel Norcini SS
5-5-2024

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